On Why The Harriers Had To Go

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Himoto
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Re: Crane Paths and Kotei Choices

Postby Himoto » Sun Apr 26, 2015 2:24 am

Personally, I can tie the scouts with Uji just fine. Yes, the current batch is lacking, (but that's a general issue with every aspects of most clans - the story has not managed to get many strong characters going, period), but we've had a number of great scouts and other daidoji who were not harriers but worthy heirs of Uji (remember the dynamic duo in late Lotus who helped Uji kill Rekai?) And Uji was not ALL about sneaky underhanded tricks, one might add.

I'm the opposite of Onimaru, personally. I don't want the current ccg scouts renamed to Harier. I want them to play like the old harriers but stay as just scouts/daidoji. Because that's the ironic thing here - the old harrier were a very good Daidoji theme, very flavorful- delay and under,ine the enemy while the clan bring its political clout to bear. They just had nothing to do mechanically with actual harriers.

The didoji are protectors. They fight until our politicians can win. They shouldn't be a military deck.

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Kakita Onimaru
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Re: Crane Paths and Kotei Choices

Postby Kakita Onimaru » Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:43 am

I admit I take the approach I do because I do not have a particular attachment to them. I came into the game when they were already gone and have only heard stories. But I like the idea of them flavor wise and find them and interesting part of the setting.

Mechanically, No, I do not want them back in the game as they were. Because by all accounts they were broken as heck and not fun to play against. At least that is what I have heard.
If you're having Crane problems I feel bad for you son,
I've got 99 problems but a duel ain't one!

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Re: Crane Paths and Kotei Choices

Postby Daramere » Sun Apr 26, 2015 9:48 am


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Kakita Onimaru
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Re: Crane Paths and Kotei Choices

Postby Kakita Onimaru » Sun Apr 26, 2015 11:23 am

I'm afraid I don't know what you are talking about. You seem to be attributing points I never made. Or perhaps I have been unclear about them. In the very quote you just posted I spelled out what will happen if the a Harriers are discovered. Because they will be. It's an eventuality. And Makoto (or whoever is the current champ) will have to answer for what are admittedly crimes. This is part and parcel of having Harriers. I accept that. If you think I want harriers to run about willy-nilly and never have to answer for them selves then you are wrong. If anything, I am agreeing with you.

As for the Samurai Drama, your argument only work if the question is asked once. Duty or honor? If the question is "what do I want my one note archetype to be" then yes, I choose honor. But it is not a singular question. It is something that must be asked every time a samurai is faced with a new challenge. And no, even for the most honorable of samurai, the correct answer is not the honorable one, because practical matters challenge them. That's why it's a constant challenge. It's the basis of why all samurai fall from grace.
If you're having Crane problems I feel bad for you son,
I've got 99 problems but a duel ain't one!

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Re: Crane Paths and Kotei Choices

Postby Daramere » Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:13 pm


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Re: Crane Paths and Kotei Choices

Postby Daramere » Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:10 pm

I would say that, in general, the story does not portray being honorable as particularly advantageous. Not a Crane-specific thing, but in general. If you want to look at the Crane-Mantis war, for example, you did not see something like (1) other Clans being unwilling to work with the Mantis because of their poor reputation, thus advantaging the Crane in the war; or (2) an individual Mantis, lacking strong honor as compared to his Crane opponents, turn tale and run (or surrender, or get paid off) rather than sacrifice his life for his Clan.

This is, in general, part of a larger notion of Clans' weaknesses not getting much play. Which is the sort of thing that happens when the people who care most about an individual fiction are the Clans who are in that fiction, and the people who care the most about the depiction of an individual character are fans of that character's clan. So you're likely to be pissing off those people more than you are pleasing others, and (I presume) that makes it tough to work into fictions.

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Doji Satevis
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Re: Crane Paths and Kotei Choices

Postby Doji Satevis » Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:14 pm


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Re: Crane Paths and Kotei Choices

Postby Kakita Onimaru » Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:32 pm

Chris, clearly we disagree on what is mutually exclusive. I am considering the existence of harriers to be akin to the "dark secret" disadvantage in the RPG. Because you can be honorable, even the most honorable, and still have a dark secret. A stain on their honor. The only way we can't have a stain on our honor and NOT still be honorable is if all the other clans have spotless honor. Tell, me, which of the great clans doesn't have blood on their hands? Which clan has no dark secrets they would rather forget?

None.

Being the "most" honorable is relative. No clan has perfect honor.
If you're having Crane problems I feel bad for you son,
I've got 99 problems but a duel ain't one!

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Re: Crane Paths and Kotei Choices

Postby Himoto » Sun Apr 26, 2015 6:00 pm

Blood on your hand and comitting treason are two separate things.

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Kakita Onimaru
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Re: Crane Paths and Kotei Choices

Postby Kakita Onimaru » Sun Apr 26, 2015 6:04 pm

Not literal blood. Samurai are trained killers. All the good ones have killed someone. I mean "something that they are Guilty/ashamed of".
If you're having Crane problems I feel bad for you son,
I've got 99 problems but a duel ain't one!


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