The Left Hand's Path - Crane Story Paths
- Kakita Onimaru
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Re: The Left Hand's Path - Crane Story Paths
I dislike this reasoning that the Crane are too honorable to have an "in case of emergency, break glass" option. The whole point of why honor makes for compelling Drama is that it is impossible to live up to the perfect ideal of an honorable samurai. The story of a samurai is how they try to live as honorably as they can in the face of the harsh reality of the world. The Crane arn't the most honorable because they are free from dishonor, they are the most honorable because they endure to preserve their honor far more than any other clan save the Lion. BUT, enduring the most isn't the same thing as enduring completely, and when that breaking point comes the Harriers are the response.
If you're having Crane problems I feel bad for you son,
I've got 99 problems but a duel ain't one!
I've got 99 problems but a duel ain't one!
- Doji Honshingen
- Chui
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Re: The Left Hand's Path - Crane Story Paths
There should be some cases where Crane Samurai (Daidoji in particular) should bend the rules of honor, but the harriers were a group that completely ignored them. Not just if the need was there, they were trained to fight dishonorably.
That's the reason I don't like Harriers, but have no problems with some Daidoji using some... exotic... "spices" in dire situations
That's the reason I don't like Harriers, but have no problems with some Daidoji using some... exotic... "spices" in dire situations
Soul of Doji Honshi
Re: The Left Hand's Path - Crane Story Paths
There is a difference between an individual samurai (possibly a grunt, possibly a high-up official) making a one-off decision that is less than honorable, and the entire clan having an official (if secret) policy of maintaining a significant force expressly for the purpose of doing wildly dishonorable things. If the Crane aren't too honorable to have a long-established secret ninja organization (an act that is exceptionally dishonorable), then how honorable are they, really? And being really honorable is kind of the Crane's purpose.
I'm not sure how it exemplifies samurai drama for the Crane Clan to be objectively taken as super-honorable, while constantly doing something exceptionally dishonorable. There's no drama in having your cake and eating it too. Samurai drama would mean, at a minimum, a character recognizing that, whatever face they presented to the world, they really were not worthy - that they had failed to live up to their ideals, and had chosen practicality over honor.
I'm not sure how it exemplifies samurai drama for the Crane Clan to be objectively taken as super-honorable, while constantly doing something exceptionally dishonorable. There's no drama in having your cake and eating it too. Samurai drama would mean, at a minimum, a character recognizing that, whatever face they presented to the world, they really were not worthy - that they had failed to live up to their ideals, and had chosen practicality over honor.
- Asahina Shimato
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Re: The Left Hand's Path - Crane Story Paths
I imagine a Dragon haughtily explaining the finer points of honour to a Crane may be EXACTLY why there will be revenge against the Dragon, no?
While I understand the need for the Crane to fulfill an important function for the rest of Rokugan, they also need to survive and pursue their own interests. The way you describe them is just too neat and compartmentalized. "Just stand there and look pretty."
You don't get to tell us how to be, other clans. The Dragon have no right to meddle in family affairs like this. We solve them internally. Nobody gets to tell us how we should be but our own.
While I understand the need for the Crane to fulfill an important function for the rest of Rokugan, they also need to survive and pursue their own interests. The way you describe them is just too neat and compartmentalized. "Just stand there and look pretty."
You don't get to tell us how to be, other clans. The Dragon have no right to meddle in family affairs like this. We solve them internally. Nobody gets to tell us how we should be but our own.
- Matrim
- Nikutai
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Re: The Left Hand's Path - Crane Story Paths
I always pictured the harriers as the only way the crane could survive. Other clans armies were too strong and if diplomacy failed and we were invaded then we needed something to stop them. Their actions are not entirely dishonorabke either. The most honour might be gained by taking your 200 men on a hill and dying to fail to hold back 10000 lion but to my mind it is better to poison some water holes and win.
The iron crane concept went to far down the line of the crane having the best courtiers,duelisrs and army whereas the harriers worked far better as a concept to my mind. That is half the reason they went. It was nothing to do with them not 'fitting' in a crane but that all the stories started being about cool crane harriers and a lot of the card peeps.
The iron crane concept went to far down the line of the crane having the best courtiers,duelisrs and army whereas the harriers worked far better as a concept to my mind. That is half the reason they went. It was nothing to do with them not 'fitting' in a crane but that all the stories started being about cool crane harriers and a lot of the card peeps.
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- Shireikan
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Re: The Left Hand's Path - Crane Story Paths
Dragon Clan • Artisan • Friend to the Crane • Samurai • Conqueror • Duelist • Kensai
- Daidoji Tacticus
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Re: The Left Hand's Path - Crane Story Paths
I'm sort of confused as to who it is who is going to be enacting this revenge on the Dragon. Kaori laid out a plausible psychological rationale for it, but... who even knows that the Dragon are responsible for the end of the Harriers? Domotai, definitely. Fumisato, likewise, but he died peacefully in his bed years ago. Makoto, maybe, if Domotai told him... hard to know either way. Kikaze knows, but he's retired, and he explicitly didn't tell Akeha.
So... who exactly knows that the Dragon were involved? A bunch of Harrier relatives would know that the group was disbanded and its obstinate members purged, yes. But it's not as if Domotai's people came through shouting "WE DO THIS BECAUSE THE DRAGON MADE US! DON'T BLAME US!" I doubt they even knew about that part - why would anyone have told them?
So... who exactly knows that the Dragon were involved? A bunch of Harrier relatives would know that the group was disbanded and its obstinate members purged, yes. But it's not as if Domotai's people came through shouting "WE DO THIS BECAUSE THE DRAGON MADE US! DON'T BLAME US!" I doubt they even knew about that part - why would anyone have told them?
Ceterum autem censeo Otomines esse delendam.
Player of Asahina Umeko at Winter Court IV
Player of Asahina Umeko at Winter Court IV
- Asahina Shimato
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- Kakita Onimaru
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Re: The Left Hand's Path - Crane Story Paths
If you're having Crane problems I feel bad for you son,
I've got 99 problems but a duel ain't one!
I've got 99 problems but a duel ain't one!
- KakitaKaori
- Shireikan
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Re: The Left Hand's Path - Crane Story Paths
I think it will have to come out in the story who's enacting the revenge. And really, they didn't say that the revenge would happen specifically for the thing your getting revenge for, if the story team wanted to be creative. If, say, the Lion wanted revenge on the Dragonfly, for example, they could conquer dragonfly lands for some completely different reason, and still be getting that extra little glow of revenge. Who knows what the writers will do? Not me. But I really have enjoyed this discussion....lots of very good thoughts on the role of honor. Much respect.
Kakita Kaori
Kenshinzen of Golden Petal Village and overly prolific fiction writer
http://craneclan.weebly.com/
[Kakita Kyoumi/WC5]
Kenshinzen of Golden Petal Village and overly prolific fiction writer
http://craneclan.weebly.com/
[Kakita Kyoumi/WC5]