Her Father's Daughter

For discussions on official fictions and fan-fictions alike.
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Kakita Shiro
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Her Father's Daughter

Postby Kakita Shiro » Wed May 17, 2017 7:08 am

Bushi. Artisan. Duelist. Magistrate. Hatamoto.

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Doji Makoto
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Re: Her Father's Daughter

Postby Doji Makoto » Wed May 17, 2017 8:07 am

Loved it! Don't want to spoil anything, but it was simply great.
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Kakita Onimaru
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Re: Her Father's Daughter

Postby Kakita Onimaru » Wed May 17, 2017 9:27 am

I liked, but think the writing could use some editing. I'm picky
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Doji Makoto
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Re: Her Father's Daughter

Postby Doji Makoto » Wed May 17, 2017 9:35 am

What bothers me most about the writing is the occasional use of "hai" or "-ue" and things like this.
Last edited by Doji Makoto on Wed May 17, 2017 9:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Daidoji Reiji
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Re: Her Father's Daughter

Postby Daidoji Reiji » Wed May 17, 2017 9:35 am

I was hoping to see more differences from Hotaru than Hoturi, and they may come eventually. The fiction itself was fine, I was slightly disappointed all in all. Hopefully she doesn't just end up being a Hoturi clone.
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Corbeau
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Re: Her Father's Daughter

Postby Corbeau » Wed May 17, 2017 2:28 pm

Doji Makoto wrote:What bothers me most about the writing is the occasional use of "hai" or "-ue" and things like this.


Knew something was bothering me that I couldn't put my finger on. Feels excessively forced, trying to exoticise the setting.
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MirumotoDaisuke
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Re: Her Father's Daughter

Postby MirumotoDaisuke » Wed May 17, 2017 6:56 pm

While we're on the subject, is Hotaru's use of "-dono" appropriate toward Bayushi Kachiko, Imperial Advisor? I thought -dono was reserved specifically for superiors in your own chain
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Daidoji Reiji
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Re: Her Father's Daughter

Postby Daidoji Reiji » Thu May 18, 2017 5:18 am

MirumotoDaisuke wrote:While we're on the subject, is Hotaru's use of "-dono" appropriate toward Bayushi Kachiko, Imperial Advisor? I thought -dono was reserved specifically for superiors in your own chain


That's how I understood it too, though perhaps Kachiko's position in the court technically makes Hotaru a defacto vassal of sorts
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Himoto
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Re: Her Father's Daughter

Postby Himoto » Thu May 18, 2017 5:47 am

At least, this story recanonizes two of the big three Imperial-era Crane characters (Toshimoko and Yoshi). Only Uji missing now from the Crane all-stars lineup.

(Okay, and Reju)

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Daidoji Tacticus
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Re: Her Father's Daughter

Postby Daidoji Tacticus » Thu May 18, 2017 6:04 am

MirumotoDaisuke wrote:While we're on the subject, is Hotaru's use of "-dono" appropriate toward Bayushi Kachiko, Imperial Advisor? I thought -dono was reserved specifically for superiors in your own chain


L5R has been somewhat inconsistent in its treatment of that honorific, and IIRC at one point it did define -dono as an honorific used for one's own feudal superiors. That doesn't seem to have been the case as of 4e, though. The 4e corebook mentions the -dono honorific once:

On page 31, the 4e corebook wrote:The suffix “-dono” implies both respect
for the one addressed and great humility by the speaker, and
thus can be used not only for daimyo but also for anyone else
who is regarded with high admiration.


And Imperial Archives' listing of various honorifics and their meanings says this:

On page 34, Imperial Archives wrote:-dono: samurai who is a mid-ranking lord (provincial daimyo, governor, etc)


My understanding is that it was historically used in Japan to address persons of high status in a way that acknowledged that status without necessarily making a statement about one's own standing relative to them (convenient if, say, a pair of prickly rival daimyo need to have a civil conversation).

Obviously, it's up to FFG what meaning the honorific carries in their Rokugan, but there's plenty of grounds for -dono to be appropriate here without requiring Kachiko to actually be Hotaru's feudal overlord.

Personally, I quite like the use of honorifics in L5R; they can convey a lot about how characters see one another, levels of respect and formality, etc, that would be quite difficult to succinctly and naturally get across in other ways. Obviously it would be silly to crowbar them into places where they don't fit (e.g. people should not be -sama-ing one another in Ye Olde Fantasie Europe), but they are a part of the culture that L5R draws its central inspiration from. IMO, it would be weirder for them not to be there.

Daidoji Reiji wrote:I was hoping to see more differences from Hotaru than Hoturi, and they may come eventually. The fiction itself was fine, I was slightly disappointed all in all. Hopefully she doesn't just end up being a Hoturi clone.


YMMV, but Hotaru came off as plenty different to Hoturi to me. Now, granted, my impression of Hoturi as a character is shaped largely by the fictions in the Winter Court RPG books (Kyuden Kakita in particular) rather than later sources, but the qualities of Hotaru that remind me particularly of Hotaru are:

- Serious father issues.
- In a relationship with Kachiko.

And both of those are expressed quite differently between the two.

Hoturi deals with his daddy issues by drinking, womanising, and general frivolity (which naturally leads Satsume to lash out at him more, and on and on it goes). Hotaru, it would seem, deals with them by pushing herself ever harder to live up to the expectations of a father who's no longer there to respond.

Hoturi's relationship with Kachiko began as a game of mutual manipulation and one-upmanship between two people who enjoyed one another's cleverness and, in Kachiko's case, enjoyed meeting someone who recognised and respected her cunning. One scene of Hotaru and Kachiko together isn't much to draw conclusions from, but the dynamic between them doesn't feel like that to me at all.

So Hotaru, to me, does not feel at all like a simple gender-swap of Hoturi. She's in similar circumstances to Hoturi, but she is dealing with them differently as befits a different character.
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