Topic: The Cardboard Geisha Part 11 - The Things I Meant to Say (Read 4661 times)

Nina Illingworth · « **on:** December 24, 2009, 07:16:30 PM »

The Cardboard Geisha CE Article 11:
“The Things I Meant to Say” – A Path of the Destroyer Postscript

“I really thought that I could take you there, but my experiment is not getting us anywhere” – Losing My Favorite Game, The Cardigans

It’s funny but before I started writing these articles I genuinely enjoyed new card Preview time. After all when you’ve developed the kind of serious deck-building habit I’m working on here it’s hard not to get really excited about having 156 glorious new options to create with. In the rarified air of a new set every new card has the potential to fit in someplace, somewhere and the cold hard truths of testing won’t have time to set in for weeks. The possibilities seem limitless and like a child set loose in a candy store the imaginative deck-builder will want to try a little bit of everything all at once. Of course a new set also means potentially sweeping changes to the environment; new decks are created, old decks are modified and the meta-game shifts to match these new realities. In particular recent sets (PotD, GotE) have radically altered L5R’s landscape virtually overnight and all early signs point to a Harbinger set that will impact the game like a meteor. To some degree this means starting all over again here at the Cardboard Geisha and it’s likely I’ll lose at least the month of January building, modifying and testing a variety of decks. In essence we’re now entering the Post-PotD environment and once again I couldn’t find enough time to write about all the decks I wanted to share. This puts me in the same predicament as last time; do I keep writing about decks that are no longer relevant until the new set finally comes out or do I focus immediately on the Harbinger environment and simply discard my old decks? Obviously this really isn’t a choice at all since my curiosity will force me to focus on the new environment as soon as a full spoiler is available and everyone reading this article knows it. This grim truth leads to a few very obvious conclusions, not the least of which is that at the pace I write I will likely never catch up with L5R’s release schedule without taking some form of drastic measures. Please consider this article and the deck-lists included my “drastic measure”.

Hello ladies and gentlemen, my name is Nina Illingworth and I’d like to welcome you to a special supplemental edition of The Cardboard Geisha. Today we’re going to do something I promised myself I’d never do and take a rapid fire look at all 12 decks I have “in the lab” as of right now (Pre-Harbinger). In addition to a full deck-list I’ll include a brief description of the deck, some test information from actual games and a brief assessment of the deck’s overall quality. While I generally question the value of a basic deck-list without some explanation of the design process or how to play it, the simple truth is I’ve run out of time. Please accept my deepest apologies and my earnest hope that by starting fresh in the Harbinger environment I can finally maintain a reasonable writing schedule. I swear folks, I try my hardest. As always please remember that by posting these decks I’m simply offering one woman’s opinion on the Pre-Harbinger environment. When you post 12 decks at once sheer statistical odds indicate you will get *something* wrong eventually and I personally see very little point in pretending otherwise. I’ll gladly answer any reasonable questions about each deck but please remember I’m posting 12 of them at once here so brevity will be essential in any replies I am able to make. Thanks for your patience and understanding in advance.

“They Might Be Giants” – CE Crab Military

1x Shattered Peaks Castle

1x Hida’s Guidance
3x Temple of Tsukune
3x Border Village
3x Iron Mine
3x Famous Bazaar
3x Rich Coffers
3x Seiden Sanzo
1x Traveling Peddler
1x Chugo Seido
3x Hida Kaoru
1x Hiruma Etsuro
3x Kaiu Taru
3x Hida Tatsuma
3x Hiruma Gohachiro
1x Hida Hachimoto
1x Hida Tobashi
1x Hiruma Aki Exp
1x Moto Choon-yei
1x Hida Kuon Exp 6
1x Oni no Akuma Exp 2

3x Settling the Homeless
3x Deployed Reinforcements
3x Unwavering Assault
3x Strength of the Bamboo
3x The Direct Approach
2x Justly Earned Victory
2x Unpredictable Strategy
3x Kami Unleashed
3x Rout
2x Setting Sun Strike
3x Imperial Command
3x Retribution
1x Ring of the Void
1x Ring of Water
1x Armor of the Ryu
1x Heavenly Tetsubo of the Crab
1x Hand of the Jade Champion
1x Hand of the Obsidian Champion
1x Chagatai’s Armor

Description: TMBG is an excellent example of big unit military “sleaze” deck. Generally this type of deck seeks to create a number of unopposed battles through powerful movement effects like Unwavering Assault, Deployed Reinforcements and even Retribution in the right situation. Additionally, the raw power of cards like Akuma, Kuon, Tatsuma and Hida’s Guidance likely make Crab the best province trading deck in the entire format. Operating under the “one unit = one province” mantra this deck can end the game very quickly against an unprepared opponent.

Testing Data: I’ve only recently built TMBG after wasting a considerable amount of time trying to make Crab Scouts a competitive deck-type and failing. The deck represents my best take on the deck Josh Griffiths is rumored to have been playing when he won the Charity event in Mass. I say rumored because Josh hasn’t posted his deck-list on a public forum to my knowledge which makes it impossible to confirm how close TMBG is to his design. I did however assemble the deck after reading a number of tournament reports about the event online and clearly made a number of card choices based on that information. Additionally I would be remiss to not mention local Toronto Crab Matt Conway; who’s deck I also borrowed a number of elements from in this design. So far I’ve played about 20 games with the deck and lost 2 of them (Unicorn Re-direct, Scorpion Dishonor). At this point the deck contains no direct honor/dishonor Meta and that is probably a mistake considering the field at large. Ideally I’d like to make room for both events (The War of Dark Fire, The New Order) and 3x Deeds and Words but I’m not entirely sure how. Cards that I found less useful during this first round of testing include Kaoru, Etsuro and Seiden Sanzo so there may be some answers there. Taru and Gohachiro were both questionable in some matches but occasionally quite useful. For the most part however this deck thrives on its Uniques and Tatsuma, making your other personalities vaguely irrelevant most of the time. I doubt you can afford to go under 18 Personalities with this design but it probably gets stronger against Scorpion if you add more uniques. I was exceptionally happy with the fate deck with the exception of both Rings which were nigh useless in most of my match-ups.

Quality: Properly Meta’d for a given tournament this is definitely a top tier deck although it will likely take some tweaking from the “beta” version posted here. When I build new decks I automatically find myself attempting to counter this deck-type during the process and that’s a pretty sure sign you’re dealing with a legitimate contender at a large tournament. While it has some bad matches I genuinely believe they can be answered effectively through existing Meta without reducing the deck’s overall effectiveness.

“Boots on the Ground” (Previously published as “The Warning”) – CE Crane Honor

1x Shiro Daidoji

1x Doji’s Guidance
1x Offered Gift
1x Festival of Cherry Blossoms
1x Winter’s Embrace
1x Well Defended Border
3x Acrobat Troupe
3x Marketplace
3x My Father’s Shrine
1x Kitsune Den
1x Counting House
1x Traveling Peddler
3x Kakita Hideo
3x Daidoji Kimpira
3x Kakita Sadaka
1x Daigotsu Oki
1x Kakita Hideo Exp
3x Daidoji Yorio
3x Doji Bukita
3x Doji Hariya
2x Doji Senta
1x Doji Ayano Exp

3x Courtesy
3x Peaceful Discourse
3x Outer Walls
3x Weigh the Cost
3x Steel on Steel
3x Wall of Honor
3x Impromptu Duel
3x Forging the Gift
3x Shameful Injury
3x Low Stance
3x Precise Strike
3x Hamstrung
1x Outmatched
1x Ring of Earth
1x Ring of Fire
1x Ring of the Void

Description: Both consistent and mind-numbingly efficient, Boots on the Ground is best described as a speed or “rocket” honor deck. Typically this deck will honor out on its 5th turn (win to begin turn 6) without significant interaction on the opponent’s part but is capable of winning the game an entire turn sooner if it gets a chance to engage an enemy army on the defensive. This is why the deck is sometimes called “Turn 4.5” Crane online. While I can’t properly explain how to play the deck here typically you’ll want to buy either an Acrobat Troupe, Hideo/Kimpira plus a My Father’s Shrine or a Marketplace and a random 2 for 2 holding on turn 1. From any one of these 3 innocuous openings it’s possible to generate 20 point honor turns and win the game before your opponent can really start playing, assuming the deck is played skillfully and at the proper pace.

Testing Data: Boots on the Ground is the direct result of a multi page internet argument on the Crane Forum about the best way to play said Clan in the post-PotD environment. The deck was made by mashing together a dueling honor deck with elements of the “rocket” honor deck that took 4th at the previously mentioned Mass. Charity tournament. I’ve had this design together for a while now and I’ve had a chance to play well over 100 games with it as presently constructed. I am not lying to you in the slightest when I say I’ve lost at most 5 or 6 games with it in all that time. Incredibly durable; BotG shrugs off most traditional honor Meta packages in my experience. I’ve even beat military decks running as many as 11 direct Meta cards (3x Deeds and Words, both Events, 3x Beloved of the Clan, 3x Hidden Scandal) on numerous occasions. That’s not to say the deck is unbeatable but I have yet to find a sure fire method of putting it down for good. While the posted version is Meta’d against blitz, BotG is actually very modular and thus can change Meta packages easily without damaging the deck in any relevant way. For example dropping 1x Winter’s Embrace, 1x Offered Gift, 1x Daidoji Kimpira and 3x Shameful Injury allows you to add 1x The War of Dark Fire, 1x Doji Kato, 1x Doji Senta and 3x An Imperial Marriage to aggressively Meta other honor decks. Dropping 1x Courtesy, 1x Outer Walls and 1x Outmatched allows you to add 3x Enough Talk to attack Scorpion dishonor or 3x Imperial Adjudication to counter Big Unit Military. The possibilities really are endless once you identify the core skeleton of the deck.

Quality: I honestly think that as of right now this is the best deck in Celestial Edition. In my humble opinion you will not beat a properly played version of this deck without A) playing perfectly yourself and B) packing an absolute crap-load of Meta. The only upside here is that apparently the deck is hard to play properly and like most honor decks is not overly forgiving of pilot errors. I sincerely believe this deck should not exist.

“Mixed Martial Arts Mk 1.5” – CE Dragon Military

1x Pillars of Virtue

1x Togashi’s Guidance
1x Wisdom Gained
1x Inheriting an Heirloom
1x The War of Dark Fire
3x Secluded Outpost
3x Border Village
3x Gold Mine
3x Rich Coffers
2x Traveling Peddler
3x Togashi Shintaro
1x Tamori Shaiko
3x Mirumoto Ishino
3x Kitsuki Berii
1x Kitsuki Hanbei
3x Togashi Sho
3x Togashi Shiori
1x Togashi Satsu Exp 5
1x Togashi Kadzuki Exp
1x Togashi Nakahara
1x Oishi
1x Mirumoto Kei Exp 2

3x Steel on Steel
3x Rout
3x Falling Leaf Strike
3x Disarm
3x Kami Unleashed
2x Breath of the Heavens
3x Low Stance
3x Dance of the Winds
3x The Hundred-Hand Strike
3x Master the Body
1x Ring of the Void
1x Ring of Water
3x Oni-Daikyu
3x Seppun Blade
1x Infamous Blade
1x Heavenly Daisho of the Dragon
1x Armor of the Ryu

Description: A solid mid-game military deck, MMA excels in battle against other military decks but struggles mightily against speed honor and limited phase control decks. Unfortunately the post Path of the Destroyer environment is dominated primarily by decks that avoid the battle phase as much as possible making MMA a poor choice for the big tournament scene. Despite this handicap MMA is very good at drawing cards and the reaction on Pillars of Virtue enables an absolutely huge number of combat tricks with this fate deck. Even ceding the early part of the game to a faster military deck it’s fairly easy to beat any army that will dare face you into the ground in the mid/late game. Probably the most “fun” deck I have, in my playgroup we use this deck as a pacer to test new decks against and to help new players learn the game.

Testing Data and Quality: This is merely a retooled version of the Dragon deck I’ve been playing since Celestial began. It would be difficult to estimate the number of games I’ve played with MMA over that time but I wouldn’t be surprised if it turned out to be just shy of 200. During that time I’d say I probably won about 75% of my games although that number is skewed by the fact that I don’t always play the deck against top flight competition. As a general constant the deck does well against Military but wins less than 30% of its games against honor and control decks. Unfortunately the match-up is not repairable by running “a few meta” cards and in the case of a true PK/Control deck it’s not repairable at all. Throw in a difficult match-up with Mantis Ranged Attack military and you have all the makings of a 2nd tier deck. Somehow I doubt Harbinger will provide both effective honor meta and cards that help Dragon counteract limited phase kill so the deck will probably remain 2nd tier for quite a while.

“38 Red Cards” – CE Lion Military

1x Central Castle

1x Akodo’s Guidance
1x Imperial Census
2x Lightwater Bay
3x Copper Mine
3x Rich Coffers
3x Famous Bazaar
2x Barley Farm
1x Traveling Peddler
1x Chugo Seido
3x Matsu Kasei
3x Matsu Youko
3x Matsu Shunran
2x Matsu Yosa
1x Akodo Shunori Exp
1x Akodo Kurogane
3x Matsu Satsune
3x Matsu Fumiyo
1x Ikoma Tomoi
1x Akodo Sadahige Exp
1x Akodo Tsudoken
1x Matsu Benika Exp 2

3x Desperate Rush
3x Final Duty
3x A Warrior’s Patience
3x Duty
3x Unpredictable Strategy
2x Game of Sincerity
2x Justly Earned Victory
3x Sneak Attack
3x Rout
2x Overwhelming Pressure
2x Beloved of the Clan
3x Paths of Honor and Glory
3x Low Stance
3x Thorough Preparations
1x Ring of the Void
1x Ring of Water

Description: 38 Red Cards is a highly effective mid-game military deck that feels faster than it really is because at 7 Family Honor Lion always go first. Typically the Lion player will buy 2 holdings on turn 1, a Personality and 2 holdings on turn 2 and then 3 Personalities a turn from turn 3 on. As an added bonus the vast majority of these Personalities will have printed battle actions of some kind. When combined with Central Castle’s incredible card draw this allows 38RC to wear an opponent down with a never-ending wave of mediocre battle actions over the course of one or two battles. What Lion lacks in terms of battle kill it makes up for in sheer volume of bow/send-home actions. It’s hard to lose battles when your opponent starts with less units than you and has to pass 4 or 5 times while you’re still playing fate cards.

Testing Data: One if the first decks I put together after the release of PotD, “38 Red Cards” is the result of a series of online discussions I had with Jared Devlin-Sherer and its safe to say I stole liberally from his Lion deck while building mine. A victim of its own success I’ve probably only played 38RC about 60 or 70 times in the past few months because it needed so little tweaking from the initial design. I would estimate the deck wins 75-85% of its games which is significant since I rarely play it outside of tournaments or serious play test games and thus it accumulates very few “easy wins”. If the deck does have any bad match-ups they would be Mantis Ranged Attack military, Crab big unit Province trading military and the very best Crane rocket honor decks in the format. Even these match-ups are more like 40/60 rather than true auto-losses however and that fact alone makes 38RC a viable tournament deck. The posted version is Meta’d lightly against honor, Goblins and big unit/attachment military but there’s plenty of room for additional Meta packages. For example you could drop 3x Rich Coffers and 2x Overwhelming Pressure for 3x Deeds and Words, another Beloved of the Clan and a 3rd copy of Game on Sincerity to help shore up the honor match-up. Alternately you could drop both Justly Earned Victories, a Final Duty, a Warrior’s Patience, a Rout and the Ring of the Void for 3x Outer Walls and 3x Settling the Homeless to improve your chances against Mantis and Crab.

Quality: While definitely one of the better decks in the format its soft match-up with popular decks like Crab Province Trading and Crane Rocket honor keeps 38 Red Cards from being completely busted. It is however the kind of deck that gets you through elimination rounds on cruise control and it has no true auto-loss match-ups and that comfortably fits my definition of a 1st tier deck.

Nina Illingworth · « **Reply #1 on:** December 24, 2009, 07:17:01 PM »

“The Lonely Island Mk 1.5” – CE Mantis Military

1x Dragon’s Guard City

1x Yoritomo’s Guidance
1x I Am Ready
1x Lightwater Bay
3x Secluded Outpost
3x Border Village
3x Kobune Port
3x Famous Bazaar
2x Imperial Artificer
1x Traveling Peddler
3x Tsuruchi Omori
3x Yoritomo Iwata
1x Yoritomo Saburo Exp
1x Tsuruchi Oguri
3x Tsuruchi Saya
2x Tsuruchi Nabeta
1x Yoritomo Iwata Exp
3x Tsuruchi Sanjo
3x Yoritomo Sunagawa
1x Yoritomo Utemaro Exp 2
1x Yoritomo Naizen Exp 3

3x Peasant Vengeance
3x Obfuscation
3x Unwavering Assault
3x Game of Sincerity
3x Justly Earned Victory
3x Unpredictable Strategy
3x Rout
3x Retribution
1x Ring of Water
3x Legion of Toshigoku
3x Wandering Scout
1x Traveling Wardens
3x Taoist Archer
3x Oni-Daikyu
1x Armor of the Ryu
1x Heavenly Kama of the Mantis

Description: The Lonely Island is probably best described as a military attrition deck with Province trading elements. The deck relies on cards like Unwavering Assault and Retribution to maintain province parity until it can draw an opponent into an opposed battle or two. The sheer number of kill actions and ranged attacks in this build then make it almost impossible for an opponent to emerge victorious from these engagements. While ultimately slower than other Military decks the Lonely Island really only needs to win one large battle to seize control of the game, especially when you factor in the free Province granted from sacrificing Yoritomo’s Guidance.

Testing Data: This deck is another re-tooled version of a deck I’ve been working on since Celestial Edition and I would estimate I’ve played about 100 games with various iterations of The Lonely Island. While predictably strong against other military and defensive honor decks the deck has a number of bad match-ups against somewhat random opponents. For example The Lonely Island tends to perform well against Crab, Lion, Phoenix, Goblin, most Dragon decks and most Crane decks. On the other hand the deck usually loses to Unicorn, Spider Control, Magistrate Control Honor (Crane/Dragon), Scorpion Dishonor and Ronin/Scout Blitz decks that run a lot of followers. In my experience the deck is also somewhat difficult to play and like most military attrition decks fairly unforgiving of play mistakes. In my experience this adds up to a deck that wins rough 65-75% of its games.

Quality: While it’s numerous bad match-ups make it difficult to call The Lonely Island a top tier deck its natural resilience against top tier opponents like Lion, Crane, Goblin and Crab make it better than every 2nd tier deck in the game. While qualifying with this deck at a large tournament would be quite difficult there is a reasonable chance you’d run the table in eliminations with the proper Meta for Scorpion and Spider. This is the very definition of a Tier 1.5 deck.

“Old Crow” – CE Phoenix Honor

1x Shrine of Champions

1x The Lost Path
3x Temple of Tsukune
3x Acrobat Troupe
3x Silver Mine
3x Temple to Shinsei
2x My Father’s Shrine
1x Counting House
1x Expendable Resources
1x Kitsune Den
1x Seiden Sanzo
1x Traveling Peddler
3x Isawa Mizuhiko
3x Agasha Ueda
1x Isawa Kyoko Exp
1x Daigotsu Oki
3x Isawa Kumai
1x Isawa Mizuhiko Exp
3x Asako Serizawa
3x Houhou
1x Shiba Ikokawa
1x Shiba Ningen Exp 3

3x Forewarning
3x Final Duty
3x Settling the Homeless
3x Mountains of the Phoenix
3x Desperate Battle
3x Reinforce the Gates
3x The Direct Approach
3x Unstoppable Power
3x Inspire Fear
3x Outer Walls
3x Wall of Honor
2x Dance of the Winds
1x Ring of Fire
3x Touch of Ice
1x Might of the Kami
3x Friendly Traveler Sake

Description: A classic defensive honor deck, Old Crow is fast, powerful and very easy to play. Unfortunately it’s also somewhat robotic and leaves little room for a good player to find a way to win a bad match-up. After a while bowing holdings, buying guys and playing send-home actions can get a little old. Typically this deck will honor out on turn 6 (win to begin turn 7) although on a good draw it can cross 40 on turn 5 quite easily. While this is slightly slower than many of the fastest honor decks in the format, Old Crow is considerably more resilient than those decks against military opponents so it’s an acceptable trade-off.

Testing Data: Despite the fact that I’ve had a version of Old Crow kicking around since beginning of Celestial Edition, I find the deck so mind numbingly boring to play that I doubt I’ve played more than 50 games with it during that entire time. During those games I found the deck to be predictably strong against most types of military and control decks. On the downside it can struggle against well built Lion and Goblin swarm decks. Potentially most damning however is that Old Crow pretty much never beats a good Crane honor deck who’s packing 3x Doji Bukita; even when it goes first. I’d guess that Old Crow won about 60-70% of it’s games in testing with almost all of it’s losses coming against Crane honor, swarm military or exceptionally heavy honor meta (not events).

Quality: Old Crow is the kind of deck that can make you look like a pro during Swiss rounds but is probably going to need a lot of luck in terms of match-ups to survive eliminations and win a large tournament. This probably slots the deck into Tier 1.5 although the feast or famine nature of its match-ups could conceivably push that rating half a tier in either direction depending on who shows up with what at a given tournament.

“Emo Firechicken Drive-bys” – CE Phoenix Military

1x City of Tears

1x Shiba’s Guidance
2x Private Shrine
3x Silver Mine
3x Seiden Sanzo
2x Akodo’s Grave
2x Expendable Resources
2x War Encampment
1x Traveling Peddler
3x Isawa Mizuhiko
3x Agasha Ueda
1x Isawa Kyoko Exp
3x Isawa Yutako
3x Asako Hoshimi
3x Isawa Mariko
3x Isawa Mizuhiko Exp
3x Isawa Tanaka
3x Houhou
1x Shiba Ningen Exp 3

3x Settling the Homeless
3x Final Duty
3x Obfuscation
3x The Direct Approach
3x Unpredictable Strategy
1x Ring of Air
3x Oni-Daikyu
1x Armor of the Ryu
1x Heavenly Daisho of the Phoenix
3x Cleansing the Path
3x Suitengu’s Gateway
3x Dance of the Kami
3x Scouring Flood
1x Might of the Kami
3x Consumed by 5 Fires
3x Ritual of Summoning

Description: E.F.D. is a blitz/swarm military deck built around the Cavalry/Naval Traits and a bunch of Battle kill actions. This deck with absolutely no changes was the subject of my most recent Cardboard Geisha article and a full description of the deck and how to play it can be found here: http://z3.invisionfree.com/GTA_TGA/index.php?showtopic=1025 .

Testing Data: As mentioned in the last article it took me quite a while to finally settle on the right combination of cards in E.F.D. and as a result I kept testing and tweaking the deck for the better part of a month and a half. This constant focus on a single deck-type allowed me to compress a little over 100 test games into a short period of time, averaging between 15 and 20 games a week. Overall I’d say the deck was winning about 60% of its games but that number is likely depressed by a number of early losses taken while the deck was still in a state of flux. Towards the end of the testing process E.F.D. was winning more like 80% of its match-ups. As always however the deck falls apart in the face of a well timed Fury assuming the opponent’s deck is built well enough to capitalize on the momentum this play generates.

Quality: While I genuinely love E.F.D. and consider it one of the best decks in the format, no deck that loses to a single well played copy of Fury deserves to be called top tier. In fact this hole is glaring it’s only E.F.D.’s excellent match-ups with a number of the best decks in the format that keep it ranked at Tier 1.5.

“Tilting Windmills” – CE Phoenix Enlightenment

1x Shrine of Champions

1x Shiba’s Guidance
1x Wisdom Gained
2x Private Shrine
2x Diamond Mine
3x Silver Mine
3x Famous Bazaar
3x Seiden Sanzo
2x Traveling Peddler
1x Expendable Resources
3x Isawa Mizuhiko
3x Agasha Ueda
2x Shiba Morihiko
3x Isawa Yutako
1x Isawa Mizuhiko Exp
3x Houhou
3x Isawa Tanaka
3x Shiba Yukihito
1x Shiba Ningen Exp 3

3x Steel on Steel
3x Outer Walls
3x Insight
3x Shameful Injury
3x Low Stance
3x Master the Body
3x Precise Strike
3x Changing Paths
2x Song of the World
2x Dance of the Winds
1x Ring of Air
1x Ring of Earth
1x Ring of Fire
1x Ring of the Void
1x Ring of Water
2x Castle of Water
3x Walking the Way
2x Seeking the Path

Description: One of the hardest decks in the entire format to play well, Tilting Windmills wins primarily by putting all 5 Elemental Rings into play and declaring an Enlightenment Victory. Unfortunately there will simply be a number of games where certain cards/deck-types make this impossible so the deck is built to backdoor into either a military or honor victory condition if the opportunity presents itself. While it would be impossible to explain how to play this deck properly in the scope of this article generally it plays the Ring of Earth first by abusing the Cavalry trait and then drops Air, Water and Void on the same turn in an ideally unopposed battle. This typically allows you to drop Fire when your opponent attacks you or by threatening to take his provinces militarily if he refuses to do so. Obviously however this is all subject to change depending on opponent and draw. Aside from leaving the Ring of Earth until last (very bad idea) it really doesn’t matter what order you drop the Rings in. As a finally note I’d like to thank the infamous Isawa Chuckles (K.Hoesing) for letting me steal most of his deck and then edit it very slightly to my own personal tastes. I could have spent months trying to figure out the right combination of unopposed fate actions without Chuck’s help and he is truly a gentleman and a scholar.

Testing Data: For a “fun” deck assembled primarily to prove that an Enlightenment Victory is possible, Tilting Windmills is actually frighteningly effective. Thought I don’t get around to playing it as often as I’d like to I would safely estimate it’s won more than half of the 40 or so games I’ve managed to put in with it. In particular it’s highly effective against bit unit military decks of all stripes, winning as many as 85-90% of these match-ups. Unfortunately it’s generally weak against all types of blitz and swarm. It also struggles against dueling decks and Spider decks that run Consuming the Flesh as both of these situations make playing the Ring of Fire incredibly difficult. Finally because it’s a draw dependent combo deck, sometimes Tilting Windmills will beat itself simply by handing you a draw that says “you will not win this game”. Of course your opponent has to be quick enough to take advantage of your predicament but if the Rings/Walking the Way/Changing Paths all run away from you at the same time it doesn’t really matter how slow your opponent is.

Quality: While obviously both challenging and loads of fun to play, Enlightenment decks as a whole simply don’t appear to be ready for prime time. Primarily this is because they are still just a bit too slow and a bit too draw dependant to survive an environment as ruthless as the one Path of the Destroyer created. Despite my desire for it to be otherwise, testing has shown Tilting Windmills to be a 2nd tier deck.

Nina Illingworth · « **Reply #2 on:** December 24, 2009, 07:17:30 PM »

“Twenty Below Zero” – CE Scorpion Dishonor

1x Palace of Crimson Shadows

1x Bayushi’s Guidance
1x The War of Dark Fire
2x Diamond Mine
3x Border Village
3x Geisha House
3x Deeds and Words
2x Traveling Peddler
1x Counting House
3x Bayushi Shigeru
2x Shoshi Ganrou
1x Bayushi Kurumi Exp
3x Bayushi Arashii
3x Bayushi Jutsushi
3x Bayushi Komiya
3x Bayushi Saka (Bayushi Hirose)
3x Soshi Yoshihara
1x Isawa Fosuta Exp
1x Bayushi Hisoka Exp
1x Yogo Kazunori

3x Settling the Homeless
3x Shame Never Dies
3x Dramatic Assassination
3x Control (Final Duty)
3x The Direct Approach
3x Veiled Menace
3x Unfortunate Incident
3x Pull the String
3x Test of Sincerity (Desperate Battle)
3x Outer Walls
3x Defensive Nature (Restoring Order)
1x Fury of the Dark Lord (Ring of Fire)
3x Walking the Way (Game of Sincerity)
3x Touch of Death

Description: Twenty Below Zero is pretty much a textbook example of a Scorpion dishonor control deck. This deck wins by dropping its opponent to -20 Family honor and it wants absolutely no part of the battle phase either on offense or defense. TBZ defends its provinces early in the game by dishonoring enemy personalities and then locking them out/down with effects like Jutsushi, Komiya, Control, Veiled Menace or Defensive Nature. Then as the deck’s gold-scheme develops you start to kill these dishonored Personalities outright with cards like Dramatic Assassination, Touch of Death, Arashii, Fury of the Dark Lord and occasionally Test of Sincerity. This of course causes your opponent to lose even more honor bringing you that much closer to victory. Generally speaking this deck can win a dishonor victory over most opponents by turn 7 or 8 with the exception being well built Crane honor; who I suspect takes you to time unless one of you vastly outdraws the other.

Testing Data: Unfortunately I’ve only recently started testing this variation of Scorpion Dishonor after running a battle/limited kill hybrid version (see brackets) after the release of PotD. While this previous version was strong against most decks it lost almost every time to Crane/Phoenix honor and good Lion military. Most of the changes to TBZ come from a recent conversation I had with Jared Devlin-Sherer specifically about how to try and address Scorpion’s problem with those deck-types in particular. So far these changes have been successful in early testing and it’s quite clear while operating the deck that the new version is much stronger against most opponents. Due to Scorpion Dishonor’s immense popularity I’ve only been able to get about 20 games of testing in but those games include a 4-0-1 record against two types of Lion and a 2-0 face washing of a pretty good Phoenix honor deck. I have lost twice now to big unit military decks that simply outdrew me, one Crab and one Dragon specifically.

Quality: While I don’t have enough games to say for certain, TB Z certainly feels like a top tier deck when you play with it. Like most control decks it’s somewhat tricky to play correctly but usually the answers become obvious if you examine the board carefully. It’s particularly devastating against military decks that rely on high honor personalities (Crab/Dragon/Lion) or expensive attachments (Mantis/Crab). Again it’s probably too early to say for certain but I’ve seen TBZ carve up enough tournament worthy decks to say it’s likely a tier 1 deck.

“Gobonomics” – CE Spider (Goblin) Military

1x Fields of the Dead

1x Fu Leng’s Guidance
3x Besieged Borderland
3x Border Village
3x Shinomen Marsh
2x Expendable Resources
3x Pokupo
3x Daigotsu Taizo
3x Gakku
3x Pokku
3x Shukku
3x Gutobo
3x Chuda Shuzo
1x Chua Seikai
1x Daigotsu Susumu
1x Pokku Exp
1x Isawa Fosuta Exp
3x Udo

3x Unclean Sacrifice
3x Final Duty
3x Flanked by Nightmares
3x Settling the Homeless
3x Shameful Tactics
3x Unfamiliar Ground
3x Border Ambush
3x Dangerous Reconnaissance
3x The Direct Approach
3x Game of Sincerity
3x Military Assessment
3x Strategic Strike
3x Consuming the Flesh
1x Might of the Shadowlands

Description: Gobonomics was slapped together in about 20 minutes on my apartment floor after I got tired of bugging my friends to “build a good Goblin deck so we can test against it”. I’d of course seen Goblin decks in tournaments and tested a bit against an updated version of the Goblin deck that won GenCon but I wanted to see with my own eyes just how much better Goblin was after Path of the Destroyer. What I found was the perfect union of a Goblin Scout recursion deck and a Shugenja based Undead “Breeder” swarm deck. I won’t lie to some degree I’m still in awe at the level of synergy these two “packages” have when combined together. To top it all off the deck’s mass Force pump package works equally well with Goblins or Undead “token” Personalities. How do you beat a deck that has more units than you, more force than you, access to just as many kill actions as you do and can either bring back its own personalities from the dead or simply create a bunch of new ones?

Testing Data: As far as I can tell Gobonomics only sure fire loss is Scorpion Dishonor and absolutely no amount of Deeds and Words/Hidden Scandal technology can solve this problem. Other than that I can say that without Meta of any kind it appears to be about 50/50 with the fastest Crane/Phoenix/Ronin honor decks and once in a while it loses to Big Unit Crab/Unicorn when they draw multiple Retributions. Typically however Gobonomics has run absolutely roughshod over everything else I’ve tested it against, even on draws I would describe as “terrible”. The deck is a machine and incredibly easy to play to boot. Unfortunately people usually won’t give me more than one or two games against this deck so I’ve only had a chance to play with it (and against it) about 30 times. I’d say the deck won just under 25 of those with several of the losses coming against Scorpion Dishonor while testing to see if you *could* meta the match-up. Again it probably could use some honor Meta as well but I haven’t tested enough games to reach that phase yet.

Quality: Again as far as I can tell Gobonomics is a top tier deck but I’m not willing to say “absolutely for sure 100%” on a mere 30 games of test data. In my opinion however it’s almost as broke as Crane and you will not beat this deck without aggressively Metaing it or somehow outrunning it.

“Makin’ Soup Mk 2” – CE Spider (Breeder) Control

1x Fields of the Dead

1x Fu Leng’s Guidance
1x The War of Dark Fire
2x Diamond Mine
3x Border Village
3x Shinomen Marsh
3x Famous Bazaar
2x Expendable Resources
1x Counting House
1x Traveling Peddler
3x Shukku
3x Chuda Shuzo
1x Chuda Seikai
3x Goju Asagi
1x Daigotsu Susumu Exp
1x Isawa Fosuta Exp
1x Bayushi Tsubaki
3x Udo
3x Daku no Oni
3x Tsudo no Oni
1x Daigotsu Exp 3

3x Final Duty
3x Mountains of the Phoenix
3x Flanked by Nightmares
3x Dramatic Assassination
3x Impossible Force
3x Settling the Homeless
3x Desperate Battle
3x Game of Sincerity
3x Power Corrupting
3x The Direct Approach
3x Unpredictable Strategy
1x Ring of Fire
3x Oni-Daikyu
3x Consuming the Flesh

Description: Makin’ Soup is a control heavy version of a deck made by a local Dragon player named Dave Godin. Dave started with the basic question “How many ways could one deck create cards out of nothing?” Of course our entire playgroup laughed at this silly deck idea; until we played it. While obviously a little rough around the edges the deck became incredibly difficult to defeat as the game dragged longer. Realizing that Dave was definitely on to something I sat down and rebuilt the deck as a tightly focused Personality killing engine. While it’s true the deck only has 6 limited kill effects practically everything it does in battle also kills something In practice the deck plays a lot like a typical honor/dishonor control deck except your victory condition is “putting 12+ undead tokens into play”.

Testing Data: Much like the Lion deck above “Makin’ Soup” is almost a victim of its own success. The initial design came together very quickly after PotD was released and very little about the deck changed after that point. Additionally because very few people like to play-test against Personality kill based control decks I’ve probably only played “Makin’ Soup” about 50 or 60 times. During these games I found the deck to be utterly phenomenal against most types of military including both traditional blitz and big unit/province trading decks. Predictably however it tends to struggle against Goblin decks whose natural recursion and affinity for swarm tactics provide a perfect recipe for beating a Personality kill deck that functions primarily in battle. You can win the match-up if you draw enough limited kill to contain Gutobo quickly enough but typically you’ll run out of time before he runs out of good targets. The current version contains very little legitimate honor Meta and as a result it struggles against typical “speed” honor decks (Crane and Phoenix mostly). This is correctable but obviously you can’t have something without giving something else up (in this case likely Famous Bazaars and Desperate Battle). Finally this deck has roughly a 0% all time record against Scorpion Dishonor (0-4) and I’m not entirely sure you can legitimately Meta the match-up without tearing the deck apart. Despite a couple of bad match-ups the deck’s tendency to absolutely crush the decks it does typically beat is very reassuring. I’d estimate “Makin’ Soup” wins about 70% of its games in testing across a varied field.

Quality: As a good example of a deck that destroys a large percentage of the field but has multiple “no-win” or near “no-win” match-ups I think it’s fairly safe to call “Makin’ Soup” a Tier 1.5 deck in the current environment.

“The Magnificent Seven” – CE Unicorn Military

1x The Utaku Plains

1x Shinjo’s Guidance
1x Inheriting an Heirloom
3x Secluded Outpost
3x Stables
3x Clan Estate
3x Rich Coffers
2x Traveling Peddler
1x Chugo Seido
3x Utaku Kohana
3x Utaku Tayoi
1x Utaku Kohana Exp
3x Utaku Hana
3x Shinjo Hwarang
2x Utaku Anhui
2x Shinjo Ming-li
1x Shinjo Kodama
1x Moto Rena
1x Hiruma Aki Exp
1x Moto Choon-yei
1x Moto Jin-sahn
1x Moto Chen

3x Desperate Rush
3x Settling the Homeless
2x Obfuscation
2x Deflection
3x Unpredictable Strategy
3x Duty
2x Justly Earned Victory
3x Outer Walls
3x Rout
3x Low Stance
2x Imperial Command
1x Ring of Water
3x Throwing Knives
3x Oni-Daikyu
1x Heavenly Lance of the Unicorn
1x Infamous Blade
1x Hand of the Jade Dragon
1x Hand of the Obsidian Dragon

Description: This is a big unit military deck built around the Cavalry trait and Unicorn’s affinity for “re-direct” actions like Imperial Command, Deflection, Chugo Seido and Shinjo’s Guidance. The name comes from an old song by The Clash and it refers to the current 7 Unique Personalities in the deck. The basic idea is to steal 2-3 provinces with the Cavalry trait while turning one of these 7 Uniques into a massive super-unit with various attachments. Once you are forced to engage the enemy in opposed battle you focus on re-directing your opponent’s best actions to wherever they would be least effective. Good examples include forcing a kill action to target a Personality who has the Hand of the Jade Champion attached or sending a bow action towards an already bowed Kohana. Probably my favorite dirty Unicorn re-direct trick is sending a Ranged 6 attack from Final Duty at a 9F Jin-sahn who simply shrugs it off. As an added bonus Unicorn now seems to have a plethora of good battle actions printed on fairly costed Personalities; allowing you to quickly decimate enemy armies *while* negating/minimizing all their best actions through re-direct effects.

Testing Data: I’ve had a copy of The Magnificent 7 together for a couple months now after hearing about Ralph Tropheano’s strong finish at the Mass Charity event with a similar design. I never found a list anywhere online but it was fairly easy to figure the deck design out based on information published about that tournament. Of course when you find a playgroup that likes to test against good Cavalry decks you will have found the first such group on the planet Earth. This makes getting in more than 1-2 test games at a time with The Magnificent 7 borderline impossible and as a result I doubt I’ve played more than 40 or 50 serious test games with this deck since I first assembled it. The deck has performed admirably in game situations however, consistently winning about ¾’s of its match-ups. If the deck does have a weak spot it’s probably other big unit military decks, especially if they pack Retribution. Typically for example TM7 will go just 50/50 with good Crab/Mantis province trading decks. It’s also soft against good control decks, in particular Scorpion dishonor (0-3 afaicr). It excels against battle control decks of all kinds including Lion and Mantis.

Quality: Like many other decks on this list The Magnificent 7 has too many “less than 50%”match-ups to be truly top tier. Unlike many of those decks however it actually does quite well against speed honor and Lion military so it’s hard to write it off as a typical tier 1.5 military deck. Just a cut below the best decks in the format (Crab, Lion, Goblin, Crane imho), if there were a tier 1.75, The Magnificent Seven would be worthy of that rating.

Well folks there you have, the “short version” of where I was at when time ran out on the Path of the Destroyer environment. Hopefully this exercise has been helpful in some small way (especially for those of you who’re headed to Topaz). Personally I found the experience somewhat cathartic, for the first time since Celestial was released I finally feel “all caught up” on writing these articles. Thanks to everyone out there reading them and please excuse me while I spend the next month or so putting myself through a crash course on the post-Harbinger environment. Until then ladies and gentlemen, Merry Christmas and remember to keep it extra weird this holiday season.

-nina

Doji Yoshi · « **Reply #3 on:** December 24, 2009, 08:55:04 PM »

Quote from: Nina Illingworth on December 24, 2009, 07:17:30 PM

“Twenty Below Zero” – CE Scorpion Dishonor

1x Palace of Crimson Shadows

1x Bayushi’s Guidance
1x The War of Dark Fire
2x Diamond Mine
3x Border Village
3x Geisha House
3x Deeds and Words
2x Traveling Peddler
1x Counting House
3x Bayushi Shigeru
2x Shoshi Ganrou
1x Bayushi Kurumi Exp
3x Bayushi Arashii
3x Bayushi Jutsushi
3x Bayushi Komiya
3x Bayushi Saka (Bayushi Hirose)
3x Soshi Yoshihara
1x Isawa Fosuta Exp
1x Bayushi Hisoka Exp
1x Yogo Kazunori

3x Settling the Homeless
3x Shame Never Dies
3x Dramatic Assassination
3x Control (Final Duty)
3x The Direct Approach
3x Veiled Menace
3x Unfortunate Incident
3x Pull the String
3x Test of Sincerity (Desperate Battle)
3x Outer Walls
3x Defensive Nature (Restoring Order)
1x Fury of the Dark Lord (Ring of Fire)
3x Walking the Way (Game of Sincerity)
3x Touch of Death

Several problems that I foresee with this decklist.
1st: Gold. You have ToD, WtW, Dramatic, Fury, Control AND dynasty stuff to buy. If you draw a handful of money requirements, this limits your options.
2nd: Synergy. You have 6 Magistrates in the deck (Saka, Jutsushi). That's not enough if your opponent plays any kind of control (dueling or ambush). What happens if you draw a Defensive Nature and the only Magistrate you have in play (Jutsushi for example) has a control that he needs to maintain?

3rd: No Reinforce the gates. Sure you can defend with 2 or 3 peeps, but then you aren't playing your deck. The stronghold requires you to bow a Magistrate or courtier. That's one less peep to defend with. Naval kill will diminish your resources quickly and settling doesn't do much to a mantis peep with followers.

Sure, you have ToD and Dramatic, but that's 2 units dead and all your gold is gone. What are you doing against the other 3 units in play?

Arashii is a good move and I like Saka, but I'd also recommend ditching Komiya in place of Hirose or Maemi (since she kicks Mantis in the face). I understand that Komiya is control tech, however, he also bows and doesn't prevent straighten tech and move in (which there is a lot of).

Just my recommendations, but then again, I'm always wrong.

TheJared · « **Reply #4 on:** December 25, 2009, 01:32:12 AM »

Quote

Several problems that I foresee with this decklist.
1st: Gold. You have ToD, WtW, Dramatic, Fury, Control AND dynasty stuff to buy. If you draw a handful of money requirements, this limits your options.

Pretty obvious from your post you didnt read what Nina wrote or have tried the deck a single game.
This is a control deck that wins by dishonor. It does not defend. It almost never blocks, it wins before you take all its provinces. If its blocking its generally to: 1) play shame never dies 2) its the last province

Control decks in l5r work off expensive fate decks and expensive kill cards. This is not a defending dishonor deck if you defend with this deck like you discuss doing in this post you will lose. Adding more guys with battle actions and 10 battle actions to your fate deck is a BAD idea. In fact this exact concept and the exact battle actions you suggest are what we (Nina and I) initially tested before moving to this version of the deck.

The battle action version of the deck is significantly worse. Why? Your personalities die in battle resolution and rehonor/give your opponent honor, which you cannot afford. In addition Scorpion has a terrible personality base for it. They have almost no available boxables and you have to bow a guy turn to use your SH. We tested this concept over 50 games, and I've played the version with very similiar changes to what you suggest vs this version and this one has better matchups and does better overall.

Cutting test of sincerity is a terrible idea. This is one of the best cards in the fate deck. This card basically says open: they lose 2 and their best dude is dishonored. Cutting Walking the way is a terrible idea. This basically says "lose 5 honor" as you most often walked for card is unforunate incident.

Yes this fate deck is expensive, but every deck in l5r does not work the same way. You don't try to play out your hand in one turn you kill and control every unit they bring out so they cant take your provinces. Basically as a stall tactic while you drop them to -20. The deck has plenty of gold to pay for these cards in the late game and usually does a great job preventing your provinces from being taken early game with your personalities/early defensive cards.

If you add the battle actions this deck will slow down. Also some of your matchups (specifically those against cavalry military, prime example Unicorn) or against military decks that have honor gain cards in battle (see Lion). The point is every battle you enter is a liability. It costs you manpower, fate cards and generally does not cause any honor loss.

Quote

2nd: Synergy. You have 6 Magistrates in the deck (Saka, Jutsushi). That's not enough if your opponent plays any kind of control (dueling or ambush). What happens if you draw a Defensive Nature and the only Magistrate you have in play (Jutsushi for example) has a control that he needs to maintain?

If they play these cards the last guy they are going to kill will be Saka... Maybe jutushi but likely they are going to hit your yoshiharas and fosuta if they are smart.

Quote

3rd: No Reinforce the gates. Sure you can defend with 2 or 3 peeps, but then you aren't playing your deck. The stronghold requires you to bow a Magistrate or courtier. That's one less peep to defend with. Naval kill will diminish your resources quickly and settling doesn't do much to a mantis peep with followers.

Sure, you have ToD and Dramatic, but that's 2 units dead and all your gold is gone. What are you doing against the other 3 units in play?

There aren't going to be another 3 units in play if you play this deck right and know what you are doing. They will be dead or bowed. Your general goal is to limit their attacking units to 1-2. This means they cant take a province through an early defensive card. This is not the same build as other Scorpion decks that attempt to defend. Those decks have to run worthless fate cards that dont cause any honor loss (see desperate battle, ring of fire, final duty) pretty much every suggested change in the fate you wanted. Again try the deck before you post such problems at least once or twice. Or gold fish it on Egg of pan ku to get an idea. This deck doesnt block and it doesnt for very good reasons.

Once you cut cards like Defensive nature, touch of death, dramatic, control obviously you cant control their board anymore and this is going to create the impression "I need battle actions to defend". This impression is a mistake the truth is you should be thinking "I need more kill cards so I dont have to block cause my Scorpion guys are too important"

Quote

Arashii is a good move and I like Saka, but I'd also recommend ditching Komiya in place of Hirose or Maemi (since she kicks Mantis in the face). I understand that Komiya is control tech, however, he also bows and doesn't prevent straighten tech and move in (which there is a lot of).

Just my recommendations, but then again, I'm always wrong.

Again you pretty much suggested cutting every controlish card in this deck and replacing them with battle actions. Koyima is KEY. He lets you basically stop an entire guy from assigning. If you dont block they can't move into the battle with the majority of their fate cards that do so. Again the version you suggest was tested extensively and found to be worse than the final one you see here. Scorpion cannot win battles. They cannot block. Half the decks in the format have cavalry units, naval guys and sneak attack. Lion, Phoenix, Unicorn, Dragon, Mantis, Spider all these decks run ways to go before you in battle or to avoid your defenders.

Instead if you run ALL these kill cards instead of SOME (which is basically what you suggest) you can keep them from having enough guys to attack. Really its only a measure to buy time till about turn 6-7 which is when you drop about 20 points of limited honor loss on their head and they insta-lose.

[qiuote]

Just my recommendations, but then again, I'm always wrong.

[/quote]

You aren't wrong. We built the deck almost down to the letter exactly how you recommend at first. Then (after about 30 games of testing) it lost a whole lot of games vs specific matchups. So instead of saying "hey Scorpion just loses to Lion and Unicorn" we tried to find a way to improve those matchups. Running 0 opposed battle actions and turning this deck into a control deck instead of a battle action deck IS that way. Too often in the battle action deck vs high honor opponents you end up blocking thinking "I can stop them from taking the province or kill their guys" and then you end up with guys bowed in battle resolution which leads to them gaining honor. This is especially true near the end of the game when you are down to 2 provinces or so and try to block with 3-4 guys vs their large army. Usually this battle leads to them gaining 6-8 honor and generally makes you lose.

Not sure how long you have been playing the game, but a lot of your suggestions are what most people who havent been playing that long/dont play too competitively would suggest. Not saying this to be rude just there are other decks than "battle action decks" in L5R, and this is one of them and its better than its battle action counterpart.

TheJared · « **Reply #5 on:** December 25, 2009, 01:39:20 AM »

Yoshi,

Not trying to be rude with my post. But most l5r players don't play control decks or understand them. Whenever you show them a control deck they immediately suggest adding battle actions, claim the fate deck is too expensive and continually ask "how do you defend?!?!". I've been playing for a long time, my specialty is control decks. I've won many Koteis with them. So I was just being forceful with my thoughts. Going to think a bit about how to explain more in depth why this works better than running defensive cards and I'll post again. Control decks in l5r are harder to build and often more difficult to play.

Merry Xmas

Doji Yoshi · « **Reply #6 on:** December 25, 2009, 11:44:33 AM »

Naw, it's okay.

I just see a hole where Scorpion are concerned. It seems to me that if you don't draw correctly that they come over and smash provinces before you have time to breathe. I have a Mantis friend here that dynasty flips aggressively, and he usually gets Utemaro / Naizen / Guidance out very quickly. it's quite depressing, but they are also one of the clans where Dramatic Assassination is overly priced because of attachments.

Just one other question then, if this deck doesn't go to battle, then why play Arashii? Why not throw in another Shugenja/money(War Encampment)?

As for everything else, well, I agree partially. I'm not discounting the deck. It's just that to me it's more of a control deck that happens to win by dishonor.
Dishonor turtle perhaps?

I am curious, however, and will try to playtest it as I do enjoy control decks.
No worries, and Merry Christmas.

Jimen himself · « **Reply #7 on:** December 25, 2009, 03:25:58 PM »

Since I play a deck that's very similar to the one posted I'll go ahead and answer. Arashii is three ninjas for dramatic and three samurai for control. Also, in their build he's a kill action at the final province for shame never dies (which is horrible in this deck IMHO)

Almond · « **Reply #8 on:** December 25, 2009, 03:31:58 PM »

I have to say that I love Nina's decks this time around. I might go ahead and try them out one of these days, especially the Scorpion one.

Doji Yoshi · « **Reply #9 on:** December 26, 2009, 12:14:45 AM »

Quote from: Jimen himself on December 25, 2009, 03:25:58 PM

Since I play a deck that's very similar to the one posted I'll go ahead and answer. Arashii is three ninjas for dramatic and three samurai for control. Also, in their build he's a kill action at the final province for shame never dies (which is horrible in this deck IMHO)

Wouldn't the deck be better with 3xGanrou's and 2xArashii since there are 6xspells and only 6 usable shugenja (and that would up that chance for usable shuggies and not decrease ninjas). Where there are 6 Samurai not counting Arashii (he would make 8 or 9) and yet only 3xControls.

Just a thought.

As for Shame Never Dies, what would be a better replacement?

Doji Ayaki · « **Reply #10 on:** December 26, 2009, 01:35:18 AM »

Quote from: Doji Yoshi on December 26, 2009, 12:14:45 AM

As for Shame Never Dies, what would be a better replacement?

Horrible... not for the deck by for the opponent I guess...

Almond · « **Reply #11 on:** December 26, 2009, 10:46:46 AM »

I tried the BotG deck. It was very violent. I started to appreciate more aspects of the deck since I've had to learn when NOT to use my cards just as efficiently as using them for their intended purposes. The learning curve is very steep but it's really smooth once you fishbowl buying stuff a lot.

Asahina Raido · « **Reply #12 on:** December 26, 2009, 10:58:48 AM »

Quote from: Doji Yoshi on December 26, 2009, 12:14:45 AM

As for Shame Never Dies, what would be a better replacement?

Assigning blame

but seeing as that option isnt available, i dont think anything really is better then it.

Dario

Nina Illingworth · « **Reply #13 on:** December 26, 2009, 01:09:12 PM »

Looks like most of the questions have already been answered so I guess I'll just hope everyone had a Merry Christmas.

And fwiw Jim, I agree about SND but I've won a couple of games I have no buisness winning because of a double SND Bomb at my last province off Saka the Favor or the Ninja. I've walked for it twice and both times it won me the game on my opponents next turn. Sometimes it's useless, sometimes it's "why I win".

Maybe the answer is more ways to play it, unsure but at this point I have a hard time even CONSIDERING pulling it.

Doji Yoshi · « **Reply #14 on:** December 26, 2009, 03:01:46 PM »

I guess that was my question. It just seems like SND is amazing since it provides 3 (not 2) honor loss and might be after an event they can't seppuku (death). How could there be any replacement?

I mean I could see Seeking the Guilty, but SND is something that can't be stopped.

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