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Author Topic: Counter Arrows do not Falter and Hamstrung  (Read 1168 times)
Kakita Kasukaru
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« on: February 23, 2010, 01:22:43 AM »

I am running an Honor based  deck (with Scouts in it, but mostly Honor) and I have some difficulties in my local environment with Mantis playing Arrows do not Falter and other players playing Hamstrung. What you guys would advise to meta against these two cards. Precision: for AdnF, it is the reaction I am annoyed about, not the duelling aspect. AdnF can react on the initial ranged attack even after I play Outer Walls, which makes it pretty much an automatic PK card.
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Marketeer
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« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2010, 01:28:21 AM »

I am running an Honor based  deck (with Scouts in it, but mostly Honor) and I have some difficulties in my local environment with Mantis playing Arrows do not Falter and other players playing Hamstrung. What you guys would advise to meta against these two cards. Precision: for AdnF, it is the reaction I am annoyed about, not the duelling aspect. AdnF can react on the initial ranged attack even after I play Outer Walls, which makes it pretty much an automatic PK card.

Deflection to a different unit when he is using his Ranged Attack might help, as would Duty--in essence, you are making him "overshoot" your least valuable unit.

Is Hamstrung giving you problems with the Focus Effect, or with the Reaction?
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Kakita Kentei
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« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2010, 01:32:18 AM »

Kakita Hideo Exp

He will allow you to get rid of one focused card before focus effects happen.
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Kakita Kentei * Crane Clan Samurai * Duelist * Sensei * Noritoshi's Army * Osprey Clan Kaiso * Unique
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Kakita Kasukaru
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« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2010, 03:09:34 AM »

Thank you very much for these answers.

To answer Marketeer-san, for Hamstrung it was the duel ability that really annoyed me. So dueling with Kakita Hideo Exp looks like a good idea indeed (focus, focus, strike). I could have one more of this guy in my deck, maybe.

For Arrows do not Falter, I understand Kentei-san's point of using Duty (or Deflection, although it can be a costly card). However, these cards have only a focus value of 2 (and they would replace other cards that I badly need anyway), so I think I will just accept my losses for this. Unless I find something else with similar effect...

As an apart but related issue, can Half-breathed strike be triggered by Hamstrung or Arrows do not Falter focus effects? Or is the trigger effect only a standard battle action? Here is the text:
Iaijutsu
Reaction: After the resolution of another player's action that targeted your Duelist during a battle, show another Iaijutsu card in your hand: Target an enemy Personality with 3C or lower at the current battlefield. His controller may destroy him. If he is not destroyed, gain 3 Honor.
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Hantei Voitagi
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« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2010, 06:05:31 AM »

If it's the focus effect on Arrows Do Not Falter that you're having problems with I find it just best to stay aware of who has printed range attacks on them and destroy those personalities via other means (for example, your stronghold).

Keep your duels for the personalities without printed ranged atacks.
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Gilles Labelle
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« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2010, 06:48:13 AM »


To answer Marketeer-san, for Hamstrung it was the duel ability that really annoyed me. So dueling with Kakita Hideo Exp looks like a good idea indeed (focus, focus, strike). I could have one more of this guy in my deck, maybe.

He is unique, so I take it you mean one more than none? Hideo xp belongs in every defensive duelling deck, IMO

As an apart but related issue, can Half-breathed strike be triggered by Hamstrung or Arrows do not Falter focus effects? Or is the trigger effect only a standard battle action? Here is the text:
Iaijutsu
Reaction: After the resolution of another player's action that targeted your Duelist during a battle, show another Iaijutsu card in your hand: Target an enemy Personality with 3C or lower at the current battlefield. His controller may destroy him. If he is not destroyed, gain 3 Honor.

I believe Focus Effects aren't actions, so neither of these trigger Half-Breath Strike.
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Kakita Kasukaru
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« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2010, 06:50:08 AM »

Voitagi san, I understand your point and agree completely. But it is not AdnF focus effect I ave a problem with, rather the reaction also printed on the card.
Tsundoku san, of course he is unique and of course I have him. That will teach me to post too fast and without thinking.  Embarrassed As for the Half-Breathed Strike, thanks for your answer.
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I am a Bunny
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« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2010, 07:08:08 AM »

It's only +2F to a ranged attack. Most of their ranged attacks will be killing your people even with 1x Outer Walls anyway. But it's no different to worrying about say, Ruthless Advance, or Tamago's printed kill action. Except it cost them an extra card to force the kill through.

I just wouldn't worry about it tbh.
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Kakita Kasukaru
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« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2010, 08:23:04 AM »

Well, it is not so much about "most of my people"  that I am worrying, but about Domotai and Kakita Kensho In. Force 4 for both, at a cost of 15 and 8 gold respectively, I can afford to lose one, but not both, especially Domotai with her duelling action.
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Kakita Kentei
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« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2010, 08:44:03 AM »

Kasukaru,
If you're worried about losing Domotai to a Naval'ed Ranged Attack, run Daidoji Murata. Then when you oppose an attacker YOU get the first action, duel a guy using Domotai then write her off.

That is, what I have discovered, about the only time you will get to use her, since for some reason, opponents will do their utmost to kill her as fast as possible and to the exclusion of every other person in your army until Domotai is dead.

However, by the time Domotai comes out, if you paid full gold for her, you should be so close to winning the game that you only need her ability one time. Same for Kensho-in.

I have found that when I play, my personalities die. In my opinion, as long as I was able to get some honor off them and use them to hang on to as many provinces as I can for as long as I can, they served their purpose. This is known as the Doritos strategy. "Crunch all you want, we'll make more."

Like I said earlier, if the focus effect scares you, launch duels with Hideo XP. Marketeer's observation about Duty and Deflection are handy too. Voitagi's suggestion about not dueling peeps with built-in RAs is also damned smart.

Hope it helps.
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Kakita Kentei * Crane Clan Samurai * Duelist * Sensei * Noritoshi's Army * Osprey Clan Kaiso * Unique
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« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2010, 08:44:56 AM »

Well, it is not so much about "most of my people"  that I am worrying, but about Domotai and Kakita Kensho In. Force 4 for both, at a cost of 15 and 8 gold respectively, I can afford to lose one, but not both, especially Domotai with her duelling action.

If you're that worried about them, don't put them in harms way until really necessary.

The simple fact is that there is so much kill that will deal wit hthem regardless of ranged attacks that worrying about that one card isn't the issue, probably the bigger problem you ought to look to is "How do I protect these people?". In that vein, Duy, Chugo Seido, and Deflection all serve a good purpose. Because Chen still Tramples them. Desperate Rush still removes them. A big crab or Oni still Kami Unleashed headbutts them. They can still be Ruthless Advanced.

Arrows do not Falter isn't the issue with it, how you protect them is, however. Attachment protection will also go a long way to helping that, if you so wish.
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« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2010, 09:14:11 AM »

Run The Slow Death and only duel with them on your turn  Smiley.
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Kakita Kasukaru
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« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2010, 10:20:13 AM »

OK, Shokoshu san, I think you are right. My solution is that I should probably run a couple of attachments to put on them systematically

Slacks san, although that sounds like a cool thing to do, it is really a bit too much random. I am not chosing which cards I draw in my fate hand. If I get Domotai and/or Kensho in late and the non-battle dueling cards too, it would work. But that's a long shot.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2010, 08:04:46 AM by Kakita Kasukaru » Logged

Daidoji Maseru
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« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2010, 10:32:51 AM »

If its an honor based deck with scouts like you said, have you tried We Stand Ready? Followers are usually a good RA stopper.
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« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2010, 10:34:21 AM »

If its an honor based deck with scouts like you said, have you tried We Stand Ready? Followers are usually a good RA stopper.

Problem with We Stand Ready is that it is a Limited action, so it is useless on defense. Without seeing the deck, it's hard to gauge how effective it would be, but I think there are probably better options.
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