Topic: The Dead of Winter, Part 2: SPOILER (Read 5911 times)

Doji Akhor · « **Reply #15 on:** January 08, 2011, 09:02:39 AM »

Beniha's and Yosuga's flavors points otherwise. Nonetheless, all points in the direction that, even if a true Winter Court is cancelled, the Crane will host one similar in all but name.

Doji Tsukasa · « **Reply #16 on:** January 08, 2011, 09:40:58 AM »

We can still hold Winter Court. We'll just charge admission. :boogie:

Daidoji Ujin · « **Reply #17 on:** January 08, 2011, 10:35:45 AM »

Like some kind of crazy rave party at the embassy. Shadow puppets, with shadow boxing, shadowy figures in the corners. All the high society of Rokugan will be there!

Kakita Soteshi · « **Reply #18 on:** January 08, 2011, 11:00:11 AM »

This is the most paranoid thread i have yet to read in the Forum. I did not know the

could get any worse. In the fiction it is even stated that the court was only unimportant because of the thread and important every other time. But still paranoia. And since when is all you can be male or female, even attitudes or else. What kind of worldview do you have. I should stop reading the threads here, I feel like in Kindergarden.

barswanian · « **Reply #19 on:** January 08, 2011, 12:06:45 PM »

Quote from: Asahina Shimato on January 08, 2011, 01:47:09 AM

Would there have been other ways to portray the Crane Clan? Certainly. This situation, ladies and gentlemen, is what Iaijutsu was invented for.

Iaijutsu with what, exactly? You're in a room with the Empress...most of those in there don't exactly get to have weapons.

slacks · « **Reply #20 on:** January 08, 2011, 12:25:02 PM »

The fiction was alright, although it seemed to come out of nowhere. Did I miss some build up for the assassins? This seemed like a climax with little or no support around it.

Quote from: Kakita Soteshi on January 08, 2011, 11:00:11 AM

And since when is all you can be male or female, even attitudes or else. What kind of worldview do you have. I should stop reading the threads here, I feel like in Kindergarden.

The english language often forces you to pick a gender when picking pronouns, and where gender is explicit it seemed that the depiction was well rounded in this case although not always necessary.

Or maybe you are talking about the discussion in the thread itself, in which case I'd say you are still off base overall... just ignore Asahina Shimato's first few posts.

I think you must have gone to a very advanced kindergarden if you were talking about gender as a social construct, I didn't take that class until college. Maybe you are talking specifically about transgenders? I don't know, it is hard to tell with one liners like that.

Asahina Shimato · « **Reply #21 on:** January 08, 2011, 12:32:24 PM »

Quote from: barswanian on January 08, 2011, 12:06:45 PM

Quote from: Asahina Shimato on January 08, 2011, 01:47:09 AM
Would there have been other ways to portray the Crane Clan? Certainly. This situation, ladies and gentlemen, is what Iaijutsu was invented for.

Iaijutsu with what, exactly? You're in a room with the Empress...most of those in there don't exactly get to have weapons.

Unless your name is Kakita Idzuki.

Kakita Soteshi · « **Reply #22 on:** January 08, 2011, 12:51:23 PM »

I was of course refering to the whining about the crane being to feminine by mainly but not only Yukata. And in generel the 1000 Threads and comments popping up about how now the crane is not fun any more and how the clan should chance just because we did not get something we always wanted. And i have worked in a Kindergarden once it is the same. The children lose in a game and dont want to play it or say the rules are wrong.

And labeling everything the crane stands for as female and therefor something to be shunned is out of place here. If the major strengh of the clan is considered to be court and art we can not want the clan to be 50% hard warriors. Especially if you declare all of court, art and duelling feminine and therefor bad. Just hte kind of comments that make me think this guy is out of place in crane. They think art and court are something real males do not do......

Asahina Shimato · « **Reply #23 on:** January 08, 2011, 12:53:30 PM »

Quote from: Asahina Shimato on January 08, 2011, 05:33:32 AM

Don't get me wrong, I don't want the characterisation of our clan to change at all.
From my vantage point, it is okay, for women, men, and Crane, to be
Soft-spoken
interested in the arts and humanities
diplomatic
social
thoughtful
etc. etc.

What I want is fiction to show that people with these traits have value, are deserving of respect and acceptance, and are as willing to fight for their beliefs as the burly manly uncouth all-muscle warrior from a Schwarzenegger movie. I don't think that happened a lot lately.

Gee, I'm sounding like Mr. Rogers.

slacks · « **Reply #24 on:** January 08, 2011, 01:07:54 PM »

Quote from: Kakita Soteshi on January 08, 2011, 12:51:23 PM

And in generel the 1000 Threads and comments popping up about how now the crane is not fun any more and how the clan should chance just because we did not get something we always wanted. And i have worked in a Kindergarden once it is the same. The children lose in a game and dont want to play it or say the rules are wrong.

It is human nature to be frustrated at failing to achieve something you've worked hard for, and I think the bitterness is dying down pretty steadily. I definitely considered waiting a week before checking into the boards again, but it seems to be coming back already. I also haven't seen anyone talking about leaving the game or quiting, although maybe I just missed those comments...

@Asahina Shimato
I should have clarified, after your first couple posts your position becomes much more clear.
The first posts sound like you are holding a position that you are actually arguing against.

barswanian · « **Reply #25 on:** January 08, 2011, 01:32:22 PM »

Quote from: slacks on January 08, 2011, 12:25:02 PM

The fiction was alright, although it seemed to come out of nowhere. Did I miss some build up for the assassins? This seemed like a climax with little or no support around it.

Quote from: Kakita Soteshi on January 08, 2011, 11:00:11 AM
And since when is all you can be male or female, even attitudes or else. What kind of worldview do you have. I should stop reading the threads here, I feel like in Kindergarden.
The english language often forces you to pick a gender when picking pronouns, and where gender is explicit it seemed that the depiction was well rounded in this case although not always necessary.

Or maybe you are talking about the discussion in the thread itself, in which case I'd say you are still off base overall... just ignore Asahina Shimato's first few posts.

I think you must have gone to a very advanced kindergarden if you were talking about gender as a social construct, I didn't take that class until college. Maybe you are talking specifically about transgenders? I don't know, it is hard to tell with one liners like that.

Fiction from the previous week: http://www.l5r.com/story/the-dead-of-winter-part-1/

Isawa Miko · « **Reply #26 on:** January 08, 2011, 01:47:32 PM »

I personally think its a bit ridiculous to jump on the sexist wagon because a Crane was killed off-hand in the fiction. Had it been a Lion, the Lion forums would have been on the same mess. A Dragon, the Dragon forum would be on the same mess. I think I agree with whoever it was (too lazy to look back for names) that said that the main problem is the arc sucking.

Court would mean much more if we were actually dealing with a foe that had human motivations and human processes, but we're dealing with a random Hindu threat from beyond the borders. And then we're dealing with Resident Evil: Rokugan, which at least has offered opportunities for some politics to boil around, but is still against just as faceless and inhuman a threat.

I'll agree that this arc is doing injustice to courtiers simply because its all about fighting horrid monsters that have no business at court. If it were about more inter-clan struggles, then we'd be seeing hot Clan vs Clan negotiations and whatnot, which I, personally, feel is the core of what makes L5R pretty awesome. I've always been attracted to the setting because of the social dynamics, but I feel these dynamics are lost when all of the enemies become foreigners. Race for the Throne was awesome. It had all sorts of politics working against one another. Courtiers mattered.

Kali-Ma and her Dumbo-faces I guess are a reason to let the bushi and shugenja shine? The Plague, too... and the Army of Dark Fire. Its just a very foreign-enemy heavy plot. People that like courtiers and politics a lot (like me) are just bound not to be as satisfied. And Clans that are focused primarily on that, like the Crane, are going to naturally feel pretty effed in the a.

SpookyElectric · « **Reply #27 on:** January 08, 2011, 02:13:45 PM »

If it's any consolation, Susumu was apparently shaking in his booties and showing unabashed fear during the entire confrontation, even as he threw himself upon the back of an attacker.

So that's something.

Doji Tsukasa · « **Reply #28 on:** January 08, 2011, 02:39:32 PM »

Quote from: barswanian on January 08, 2011, 12:06:45 PM

Quote from: Asahina Shimato on January 08, 2011, 01:47:09 AM
Would there have been other ways to portray the Crane Clan? Certainly. This situation, ladies and gentlemen, is what Iaijutsu was invented for.

Iaijutsu with what, exactly? You're in a room with the Empress...most of those in there don't exactly get to have weapons.

So....ummm....nobody thought about searching the 'monks' for weapons?

Mirumoto Taro · « **Reply #29 on:** January 08, 2011, 03:14:02 PM »

Quote from: Asahina Shimato on January 08, 2011, 01:47:09 AM

Go to the l5r main page first.

No Crane present.

Oh, wait, there is.

Quote
Then the screaming started.

The first scream was from a Crane courtier that Erena had never spoken to, and did not know her name. The woman was standing immediately in front of [the bad guy]
[...]The first assassin slit the throat of the Crane woman standing deadlocked before her, then executed two more in the seconds it took Erena to reach her.

[sarcasm]I'm so grateful that they show there are still Crane at the Winter Court.[/sarcasm]
(Isn't Idzuki among the Empress' guard? Too busy being carted by peasants, is he?)

On a more serious note, this is one of the questions I wanted the story team to answer:
Quote from: Asahina Shimato on January 07, 2011, 07:47:02 AM
Do you think Story Team and CCG design do enough to avoid the impression that the Crane are weak and undeserving of winning/being good at what we do, or would you say you sometimes even inadvertently reinforce it?

They could have picked nearly any clan or gender for the first person to fall victim to the attack.
Very predictably, a Crane (and a woman to boot) is once again the weak and defenseless victim with no redeeming qualities. A very beautiful screaming voice, maybe?

Would there have been other ways to portray the Crane Clan? Certainly. This situation, ladies and gentlemen, is what Iaijutsu was invented for.

Really???
OMG, it seems losing the heir for 1 point was really hard and now there's tears and whining everywhere!!!!
Good lord, i was really proud of the crane players for what they did (i was a crane player until the 3rd leg of the race for the throne and i tried to so some organization for that megagame and no one gave a s**t so this was a really pleasant surprise), but now i'm getting tired of things like this post.

Dude, they picked a Crane courtier because there're lots of crane courtiers. Even the chosen courtiers where screaming like lil girls. Susumu has 3F in card and all he could do was scream like a 5 year old and scratch an assasin from behind.

The idea of the fiction was to show a group of assasins creating chaos and killing some important guys in their attempt to kill Iweko. If the first assasin took of his disguise just to be cut in half by a nameless crane courtier there would be no chaos, fear, etc, only lots of über courtiers kicking asses. And it wouldn't have the effect it had this way.

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Author Topic: The Dead of Winter, Part 2: SPOILER (Read 5911 times)