Topic: [BtD] Beyond the Line (Strategy) (Read 3761 times)

Tetsuro · « **on:** April 21, 2011, 03:34:28 AM »

From Kyuden Mantis.

Beyond the Line
Strategy
0G

Battle: Take an additional action to use a Limited or Open Recon ability as a Battle action, which must target the current battlefield's province. If you do, draw a card after the action's resolution.

"This may be our only chance," Todori whispered. "Find out everything you can. Take any risk necessary. We will succeed or die in the attempt."

2FV

Kakita Onimaru · « **Reply #1 on:** April 21, 2011, 06:21:51 AM »

Interesting. Stops Recons from being projected at the cost of tempo. Good for cards that have effect for when you win the battle, as you can play it after you've pretty much won the fight.

Mirumoto Hanzo · « **Reply #2 on:** April 21, 2011, 06:25:02 AM »

It's really just filler until EE hits and all the recon actions become reactions at which point I don't think it'll see much play.

Hotaru · « **Reply #3 on:** April 21, 2011, 01:55:19 PM »

Quote from: Mirumoto Hanzo on April 21, 2011, 06:25:02 AM

It's really just filler until EE hits and all the recon actions become reactions at which point I don't think it'll see much play.

Not all recons will be reactions. More of them, yes, but not all.

SpookyElectric · « **Reply #4 on:** April 21, 2011, 02:02:52 PM »

Quote from: Kakita Onimaru on April 21, 2011, 06:21:51 AM

Interesting. Stops Recons from being projected at the cost of tempo. Good for cards that have effect for when you win the battle, as you can play it after you've pretty much won the fight.

Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but why does it cost you a tempo? You get to play the Recon as an additional Battle action (which means you play 2 actions in a row, which is generally good for tempo), and then the card replaces itself by allowing you a draw from your fate deck. If anything, your tempo remains the same, doesn't it?

Hotaru · « **Reply #5 on:** April 21, 2011, 02:07:34 PM »

The draw effect is at the end of the battle. While it may not be quite as handy in an opposed battle as much as it would be an unopposed battle, it still vastly changes the strategies (no Strategies) of a scout deck since you don't have to "point the bat".

Also, Beyond the Line + Prepare for the Worse for the lols.

SpookyElectric · « **Reply #6 on:** April 21, 2011, 02:09:17 PM »

Quote from: Hotaru on April 21, 2011, 02:07:34 PM

The draw effect is at the end of the battle.

Huh?

Quote from: Doji Tetsuro on April 21, 2011, 03:34:28 AM

Battle: Take an additional action to use a Limited or Open Recon ability as a Battle action, which must target the current battlefield's province. If you do, draw a card after the action's resolution.

It says after the action's resolution on the card. Am I missing something?

Doji Hatashai · « **Reply #7 on:** April 21, 2011, 02:13:27 PM »

Quote from: SpookyElectric on April 21, 2011, 02:02:52 PM

Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but why does it cost you a tempo? You get to play the Recon as an additional Battle action (which means you play 2 actions in a row, which is generally good for tempo), and then the card replaces itself by allowing you a draw from your fate deck. If anything, your tempo remains the same, doesn't it?

I may be wrong, but I think the cost in tempo comes from playing two cards that do not directly contribute to winning the battle (i.e. bow/kill/move home a guy) at a point in time where your opponent can play battle actions that will assist in contributing to his winning of the battle. That in turn does sort of make sense sense that it takes away tempo from your battle performance to play a card that could have been played previously without the additional card cost of the fate deck. If we assume two competent military decks, once battle starts they will begin trading battle action for battle action. The limited phase, between two competent military decks, is largely pass/pass. Therefore when played as a limited/open action, there is not tempo cost. When playing that limited/open action as a battle action, your sapping your own battle tempo to achieve a surprising result.

However that’s not really a fair assessment, because the amount of value you get from playing the card is so much more, as has been demonstrated above. You get the essence of surprise for instance. What that means realistically, is that if you are winning the battle, then playing this card plus your recon means your winning more. The most poigniant example I can think of is dangerous reconnaissance or military assessment. Both cards are going to be awesome when played unopposed in a battle field that you are already winning, however they don't do anything proactive toward winning each individual battle.

I agree though, “tempo loss” isn’t exactly the best phrasing for the card’s drawback, as it is more like a fate-deck clogging device that will only work when you have another limited/open recon action that you couldn’t previously play without detriment.

-Edited for clarity.

SpookyElectric · « **Reply #8 on:** April 21, 2011, 02:15:43 PM »

I'd say that's a closer assessment to what it does to the game state. I can think of a few current Recons that would be surprisingly proactive if they were Battle actions.

Dunno if this "saves" the scout decks yet...

Daidoji Ryushi · « **Reply #9 on:** April 21, 2011, 02:20:32 PM »

Just a quick point: the additional Recon doesn't have to come from your hand...

SpookyElectric · « **Reply #10 on:** April 21, 2011, 02:29:55 PM »

Exactly.

Mirith · « **Reply #11 on:** April 21, 2011, 02:35:42 PM »

Most likely won't save scouts for CE (I don't think anything will), but it does an additional thing then mentioned above. It allows you to recon on the defensive without having to broadcast it (for the most part). Also, it allows you to use limited recons on the defensive. I could see it used to play Secured Borders and Advance Position as well on the defensive.

Also, for EE I believe they said they were changing all Recons to reactions, so you don't have to broadcast your ideas at all.

Admittedly, I'm looking at this from crab scouts and not crane scouts. All the good personality based recons require assignment for them.

Hotaru · « **Reply #12 on:** April 21, 2011, 02:40:34 PM »

Quote from: SpookyElectric on April 21, 2011, 02:09:17 PM

Quote from: Hotaru on April 21, 2011, 02:07:34 PM
The draw effect is at the end of the battle.

Huh?

Quote from: Doji Tetsuro on April 21, 2011, 03:34:28 AM
Battle: Take an additional action to use a Limited or Open Recon ability as a Battle action, which must target the current battlefield's province. If you do, draw a card after the action's resolution.

It says after the action's resolution on the card. Am I missing something?

Gah. Sorry, my mistake. Ignore that part.

Quote

Also, for EE I believe they said they were changing all Recons to reactions, so you don't have to broadcast your ideas at all.

Yes, they did say that more reactionary Recons would be getting made, but not all of them would be changed that way.

Doji Hatashai · « **Reply #13 on:** April 21, 2011, 02:44:02 PM »

Do you guys mind if I ask what printed recon actions are proactive to you? I can see actions that reduce province strength, boost personalty force, etc. Just don't see much in the way of recons that do something to your opponent's units. (which is usually how i define pro-active). All of this being said, I can see scouts going in and dropping the province strength to a more manageable level. That seems strong.

So while I was inspired from your posts, I began searching for the various recon actions available, just to see whats up, and I see some interesting language problems. For instance Waylay the Messenger, I assume since the battle has started, it doesn't qualify as the "next battle this turn at that province's battlefield." Can you use Concentrated Fire since it doesn't target the province's battlefield? Then of course there is the question about "after engaging", which I assume does not work since engagement occurred a long time previously to the card being played.

Going to be interesting.

slacks · « **Reply #14 on:** April 21, 2011, 02:44:55 PM »

Defend with spud at province they are not attacking, Beyond the Line + Prepared for the Worst = cycle + 3 honor

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Author Topic: [BtD] Beyond the Line (Strategy) (Read 3761 times)