Topic: [EoW] Yasuki Makoto (Personality) (Read 2690 times)

Doji Hatashai · « **Reply #30 on:** April 19, 2012, 09:25:50 PM »

Quote from: Doji Maidori on April 19, 2012, 09:06:12 PM

Unicorn usually lives 7g OoC

Why is unicorn going for a dishonor chick? Her ability, keywords and traits don't help them at all. As far as her trait goes, i argue that her gold reduction trait is meaningless to out of clan personalities. She becomes counter-productive if that is the reason your running her. She is way to expensive to run in scorpion, as the decks I see have them running cheap personalities with very few holdings. That might change of course, but remember to them she is 9 gold.

When the Yasuki look at her, they see a turn 2 gold expediter. Turn one they buy a 5 gold producing holding, and on turn 2 they can do something along the lines of the following: large farms become free, any turn 1 small farms can suddenly buy clan holdings or any 2 gold cost holdings, or, more aptly, they can use their stronghold to buy a slanderer or something similar. Imagine if the Yasuki see two of her turn 2. Suddenly any 2 gold cost holdings they see with her become free turn 2 on. The acceleration is the beauty behind her, not the cheapness in and of itself. And obviously that sort of acceleration becomes moot when you are paying 7 gold for her for cheap.

DaidojiHikori · « **Reply #31 on:** April 20, 2012, 01:07:50 AM »

so if i remember well they thought kosaten shiro was so strong they had to nerf it saying it could only reduce to 1...so now crab can have up to 3 kosaten shiro in game...which also make an opponent lose honor and are protected by jin quen...so large farm for free anyone?...or heck use that small farm to buy a 2 to 4 gold holding!!! I suppose at least that the zerkers can't put more merchants than they are already playing

Daidoji Fitsu · « **Reply #32 on:** April 20, 2012, 01:12:25 AM »

After seeing the Crab previews it may behoove them to start differentiating tournament wins by family. It will get boring just saying Crab all the time.

Doji Hatashai · « **Reply #33 on:** April 20, 2012, 07:26:25 AM »

Quote from: DaidojiHikori on April 20, 2012, 01:07:50 AM

so if i remember well they thought kosaten shiro was so strong they had to nerf it saying it could only reduce to 1...so now crab can have up to 3 kosaten shiro in game...which also make an opponent lose honor and are protected by jin quen...so large farm for free anyone?...or heck use that small farm to buy a 2 to 4 gold holding!!! I suppose at least that the zerkers can't put more merchants than they are already playing

There is a big opportunity cost between personalities and strongholds. Your guaranteed to see your stronghold turn one every single game you play, but you may never see a personality, even if its non-unique.

Doji Maidori · « **Reply #34 on:** April 20, 2012, 09:06:34 AM »

Quote from: Hatashai on April 19, 2012, 09:25:50 PM

Quote from: Doji Maidori on April 19, 2012, 09:06:12 PM
Unicorn usually lives 7g OoC
Why is unicorn going for a dishonor chick? Her ability, keywords and traits don't help them at all. As far as her trait goes, i argue that her gold reduction trait is meaningless to out of clan personalities. She becomes counter-productive if that is the reason your running her. She is way to expensive to run in scorpion, as the decks I see have them running cheap personalities with very few holdings. That might change of course, but remember to them she is 9 gold.

When the Yasuki look at her, they see a turn 2 gold expediter. Turn one they buy a 5 gold producing holding, and on turn 2 they can do something along the lines of the following: large farms become free, any turn 1 small farms can suddenly buy clan holdings or any 2 gold cost holdings, or, more aptly, they can use their stronghold to buy a slanderer or something similar. Imagine if the Yasuki see two of her turn 2. Suddenly any 2 gold cost holdings they see with her become free turn 2 on. The acceleration is the beauty behind her, not the cheapness in and of itself. And obviously that sort of acceleration becomes moot when you are paying 7 gold for her for cheap.

To meta honor runners while speeding up their economy mid to late game(?).

I don't get how they but a 5g holding T1 and on T2 they have her out reducing costs.

Hantei Kanpeki · « **Reply #35 on:** April 20, 2012, 09:50:28 AM »

Quote from: Daidoji Fitsu on April 20, 2012, 01:12:25 AM

After seeing the Crab previews it may behoove them to start differentiating tournament wins by family. It will get boring just saying Crab all the time.

I am sure to run these in Mid Day Shadow Court..... If we see anything like this from scorpion, oh my, we may see dishonor decks this season.

Doji Hatashai · « **Reply #36 on:** April 20, 2012, 10:29:48 AM »

Quote from: Doji Maidori on April 20, 2012, 09:06:34 AM

To meta honor runners while speeding up their economy mid to late game(?).

I don't get how they but a 5g holding T1 and on T2 they have her out reducing costs.

What honor runner gets into battle and starts attacking your provinces so that you can then choose to use her ability as "meta honor".

As far as my analysis breaks down, let me be more specific. Turn 1 you border keep into the perfect scenario, a Colonial Harbor, A Yasuki Makoto, a Yasuki Makoto, and a clan holding. You buy the colonial harbor, leaving the rest up. Turn 2 you uncover another clan holding (or 2 gold holding of your choice). You use the colonial harbor to buy one Makoto, and your stronghold + border keep to buy the second makoto, and then you bring both clan holdings in for free since she is in play and her trait has kicked in. Do you understand now how she is useful turn 2 even if she hasn't been bought turn 1? Alternatively, you can have the above and get a recruitment office instead of a clan holding, and use your bamboo harvester to pay 2 for it if you are playing second. There are a myriad of other different scenarios as well.

Remember unicorn is dependent on Cavalry or Tactician. So the odds of her being bought turn 1 or 2 are astronomically low, as that means unicorn is losing a lot of the benefit their cav trait gives them, and she isn't taking provinces. Sure, Unicorn have the *capacity* to run her, but they never will. She is too expensive for any out of clan deck to truthfully consider, unless your primary win condition is dishonor. Even then, she isn't really worth it as she doesn't guarantee an honor loss.

Hotaru · « **Reply #37 on:** April 20, 2012, 11:42:40 AM »

Quote from: Hatashai on April 20, 2012, 10:29:48 AM

What honor runner gets into battle and starts attacking your provinces so that you can then choose to use her ability as "meta honor".

Eh? Her ability isn't dependent upon attackers or defenders.

DaidojiHikori · « **Reply #38 on:** April 20, 2012, 12:14:19 PM »

Quote from: Daidoji Fitsu on April 20, 2012, 01:12:25 AM

After seeing the Crab previews it may behoove them to start differentiating tournament wins by family. It will get boring just saying Crab all the time.

Where is the like button

DaidojiHikori · « **Reply #39 on:** April 20, 2012, 12:23:46 PM »

Quote from: Hatashai on April 20, 2012, 07:26:25 AM

Quote from: DaidojiHikori on April 20, 2012, 01:07:50 AM
so if i remember well they thought kosaten shiro was so strong they had to nerf it saying it could only reduce to 1...so now crab can have up to 3 kosaten shiro in game...which also make an opponent lose honor and are protected by jin quen...so large farm for free anyone?...or heck use that small farm to buy a 2 to 4 gold holding!!! I suppose at least that the zerkers can't put more merchants than they are already playing

There is a big opportunity cost between personalities and strongholds. Your guaranteed to see your stronghold turn one every single game you play, but you may never see a personality, even if its non-unique.

You can always dig for a personality...better if it is a non unique...the economy boost if 1 sees play till 2nd turn could be enormous. Most players would mostly buy personalities from 3rd turn on, but having holdings enter for free when you would have had to pay at least 1 fastens your pace. If she had the minimum 1 clause she would be much weaker economicaly speaking. As far as her dishonoring send home effect or lose 1 honor...it is another sure win situation against an honor runner...some times i get to think that cards are mostly created thinking of military vs military matchups...the curse of the honor victory condition...

Hotaru · « **Reply #40 on:** April 20, 2012, 12:35:42 PM »

Quote from: DaidojiHikori on April 20, 2012, 12:23:46 PM

Quote from: Hatashai on April 20, 2012, 07:26:25 AM
Quote from: DaidojiHikori on April 20, 2012, 01:07:50 AM
so if i remember well they thought kosaten shiro was so strong they had to nerf it saying it could only reduce to 1...so now crab can have up to 3 kosaten shiro in game...which also make an opponent lose honor and are protected by jin quen...so large farm for free anyone?...or heck use that small farm to buy a 2 to 4 gold holding!!! I suppose at least that the zerkers can't put more merchants than they are already playing

There is a big opportunity cost between personalities and strongholds. Your guaranteed to see your stronghold turn one every single game you play, but you may never see a personality, even if its non-unique.
You can always dig for a personality...better if it is a non unique...the economy boost if 1 sees play till 2nd turn could be enormous. Most players would mostly buy personalities from 3rd turn on, but having holdings enter for free when you would have had to pay at least 1 fastens your pace. If she had the minimum 1 clause she would be much weaker economicaly speaking. As far as her dishonoring send home effect or lose 1 honor...it is another sure win situation against an honor runner...some times i get to think that cards are mostly created thinking of military vs military matchups...the curse of the honor victory condition...

To add to this, there weren't 5 for 6 holdings in the Kosaten Shiro era and it didn't produce 5 gold for holdings, as Yasuki Palaces is capable of doing. Sure, with one of her in play, Silk Works is able to buy itself just like KS had been able to achieve, but Yasuki gets a bit more out of it over the course of a game being able to buy things like Slanderer with just the stronghold. How much she can be compared to KS will depend on how flexible she makes deck-building with the accelerated gold flow, as KS had a lot of flexibility on what could be built out of it.

Tetsuro · « **Reply #41 on:** April 20, 2012, 12:38:11 PM »

I think with all this money management, the Shadow Dragon might be shopping for a summer home in the Crab lands.

DaidojiEric · « **Reply #42 on:** April 20, 2012, 12:39:38 PM »

Quote from: Hatashai on April 20, 2012, 07:26:25 AM

There is a big opportunity cost between personalities and strongholds. Your guaranteed to see your stronghold turn one every single game you play, but you may never see a personality, even if its non-unique.

If you are doggedly determined to play a non-unique personality by turn 2, you have about an 80% chance of doing so.

Yajinden Buffararo · « **Reply #43 on:** April 20, 2012, 02:42:59 PM »

I have a desperate desire to put this chick in a deck with Asahina Keigo, Agasha Kodo, Kakita Kei, and cards like Champion of Thunder.

Prosiak_Pulas · « **Reply #44 on:** April 20, 2012, 03:54:40 PM »

Quote from: Yajinden Buffararo on April 20, 2012, 02:42:59 PM

I have a desperate desire to put this chick in a deck with Asahina Keigo, Agasha Kodo, Kakita Kei(Kae), and cards like Champion of Thunder.

I'll add Asahina Munefasa too, which gives even more send home .

So i guess we're going to steal her from Crab

.

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Author Topic: [EoW] Yasuki Makoto (Personality) (Read 2690 times)