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Kakita Kenshin

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Kakita Shiro

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Total Members Voted: 8

Voting closed: July 13, 2012, 08:13:24 AM

[Kakita Kenshin]

In the spirit of argument, I found a disturbing lack of mention of LARPing (for a game based on the nation that invented the rules of dueling as well as a strict honor system) on this site. However as I have only been a member of the l5r community for a few weeks, I may simply have not seen the posts.

[Kakita Shiro]

0) Is there even a question here? What are you trying to debate?

1) What exactly makes the lack of mention disturbing? LARPing is a niche hobby better supported by LARP-specific forums. Costuming and prop construction are all time- and labor-intensive activities, to say nothing of the actual game session itself, with specific skill sets that are shared not necessarily shared by all fans of the setting. If,because it bothers you that much, you are interested in moderating a section specifically for L5R LARP, then perhaps you can negotiate with the admins.

2) The setting does not lend itself toward live action roleplaying any more so than any other fictional setting, so your parenthetical statement is dubious at best. Honor and dueling are concepts that exist in other settings.

[Kakita Kenshin]

0) There was no real question, I was simply stating my thoughts, also as this is my first time in a sadane competition of this nature I was anxious to try it out, so I simply pointed out something that I noticed.

1) I was under the impression that LARPing went with the territory in RPGs, you have already taken the time to design a character, and it really isn't all that time consuming or costly to engage in LARPing activities, the costumes can either be made quickly, or, for slightly higher cost purchased, and then all that is required is being in character at an event.

2)I felt that the setting really did lend itself better to LARPing than certain other settings where martial combat is the main, and in some cases, sole focus. In fact I would say that the duel we are engaged in at this moment could be construed as a variety of LARPing: we each have an alternate identity, and we are competing in a battle of wits for the admiration of our peers, and I would say that I, at least, am conducting myself in the manner that a character of my creation would. So I feel that this, in many ways resembles the courts in Rokugani society.

[Kakita Shiro]

There was no real question, I was simply stating my thoughts, also as this is my first time in a sadane competition of this nature I was anxious to try it out, so I simply pointed out something that I noticed.

Then let's agree to question why there isn't more LARP related topics in the Home of the Crane Clan, so this doesn't spiral out of control.

1) I was under the impression that LARPing went with the territory in RPGs, you have already taken the time to design a character, and it really isn't all that time consuming or costly to engage in LARPing activities, the costumes can either be made quickly, or, for slightly higher cost purchased, and then all that is required is being in character at an event.

Not everyone who wants to play an RPG wants to engage in all the secondary activities that turn it into a LARP. Even purchasing a costume is time out of your day trying things on, getting the size correct, and going to and from the shop. Not so bad in New York or San Francisco, but a little harder in Billings, Montana. Also, in an RPG, you are only in character when you choose to be. In a LARP, you are in character while you are walking around in a costume looking for the person you need to talk to because you have to be ready for someone else to approach you. This is nothing to do with whether or not LARPing is a legitimate hobby- it certainly is. It's just a much smaller sub-division of gamers than even RPGs. And you can clearly see how popular the RPG section is here.

2)I felt that the setting really did lend itself better to LARPing than certain other settings where martial combat is the main, and in some cases, sole focus. In fact I would say that the duel we are engaged in at this moment could be construed as a variety of LARPing: we each have an alternate identity, and we are competing in a battle of wits for the admiration of our peers, and I would say that I, at least, am conducting myself in the manner that a character of my creation would. So I feel that this, in many ways resembles the courts in Rokugani society.

This is not LARPing because I am stating my own personal opinions through a digital medium, as opposed to portraying a person who has these opinions. The fact that my account bears a name that is not my personal name is merely a wise precaution that you yourself have taken. There is nothing in Rokugan that could not be done elsewhere. Politics is just a means of conflict resolution that requires more forethought than drawing a card or rolling a die and proceeding to bash someone's head in with a foam club. Dueling is just a ritualized form of combat, and American Old West settings do it quite frequently with guns.

[Kakita Kenshin]

0) I wasn't under the impression that sadane had to have a question being debated, which is way I posted my initial comment the way I did, thus I have attempted to prepare for any counter-arguments, so, you may question whatever you like, and I will respond. However, I will not concede as to the main point of the argument being specifically about Home of the Crane Clan.

1) I must disagree, in LARPing I am not always in character, if I am stopped for a picture then I generally feel the need to drop out of character for a while in order to take the picture, unless of course the setting is advanced enough to allow technology such as cameras and the others in the picture are in character as well. And at large events geared specifically towards LARPing, such as some ren fests, many people will take extended breaks from being in character. Then, even if LARPing is a small sub-division of gamers, I feel that they are entitled to representation, either through an l5r site devoted specifically to them, or a forum on a site that deals with broader topics. This site in particular, I thought may have a section for LARPing specially devoted to Crane Clan fortes, such as the courts or iaijutsu.

2) Here, we come to an impasse, while I will admit that this is not quite LARPing, because we aren't actually facing each other in person, it is certainly, for me, a form of role-playing. I am in character, and simply see the posts as being akin to the European philosophical battles, in which one person would write down their argument and nail it to a message board, generally either in the center of town, or in front of the parish chapel, then the opponent would respond in kind. Also, I could not tell why you defined duel at the end of your post, as it did not help your argument, due to the fact that we are clearly involved in a manner of ritualized combat.

[Kakita Shiro]

0) I wasn't under the impression that sadane had to have a question being debated, which is way I posted my initial comment the way I did, thus I have attempted to prepare for any counter-arguments, so, you may question whatever you like, and I will respond. However, I will not concede as to the main point of the argument being specifically about Home of the Crane Clan.[/qupte]There has to be a point of contention otherwise its just ranting.

1) I must disagree, in LARPing I am not always in character, if I am stopped for a picture then I generally feel the need to drop out of character for a while in order to take the picture, unless of course the setting is advanced enough to allow technology such as cameras and the others in the picture are in character as well. And at large events geared specifically towards LARPing, such as some ren fests, many people will take extended breaks from being in character. Then, even if LARPing is a small sub-division of gamers, I feel that they are entitled to representation, either through an l5r site devoted specifically to them, or a forum on a site that deals with broader topics. This site in particular, I thought may have a section for LARPing specially devoted to Crane Clan fortes, such as the courts or iaijutsu.

Certainly it should be represented, but there isn't a section for LARP here because either there is insufficient demand, or because nobody thought of it. Either reason speaks to the niche nature of the hobby and why it is better suited for a hobby-specific forum's subsection on setting, than a setting-specific forum's subsection on the hobby. If you look around at the other clan forums or the AEG, there aren't any specific sections on LARP there, either. If it bothers you that much on the Crane Clan forum, then it should bother you that much more on the setting developer's forum.

2) Here, we come to an impasse, while I will admit that this is not quite LARPing, because we aren't actually facing each other in person, it is certainly, for me, a form of role-playing. I am in character, and simply see the posts as being akin to the European philosophical battles, in which one person would write down their argument and nail it to a message board, generally either in the center of town, or in front of the parish chapel, then the opponent would respond in kind. Also, I could not tell why you defined duel at the end of your post, as it did not help your argument, due to the fact that we are clearly involved in a manner of ritualized combat.

Dueling is usually one of first things people pick out as being an element of the setting, so I demonstrated that it exists elsewhere. How are you in character, discussing LARP on an Internet forum, unless LARPing is something your character does? You are discussing your own ideas.

[Kakita Kenshin]

I am discussing those ideas in a manner that I would if I were to be in character, and thus created this account keeping the character being portrayed, I wasn't so much considering the nature of the topic as part of the role-playing experience, simply the manner in which the debate is played out as well as the peer voting system.

You keep making it seem like LARPing is a very small based form of role-playing, whereas I would say it is one of the larger forms of role-playing (if we are to consider cosplay a form of LARPing, which I do).

You have also now made the assumption that the lack of a LARPing section on AEG's forums doesn't bother me, it does, or it would if I had access to AEG's forums, however, as I can post about it here, I will.
 

0) I wasn't under the impression that sadane had to have a question being debated, which is way I posted my initial comment the way I did, thus I have attempted to prepare for any counter-arguments, so, you may question whatever you like, and I will respond. However, I will not concede as to the main point of the argument being specifically about Home of the Crane Clan.[/qupte]There has to be a point of contention otherwise its just ranting.

According to the rules of the court any sadane debate may begin with a rant, so my argument is not damaged by the fact that it may have begun with a rant, nor yours bolstered by the same.

[Kakita Kenshin]

My rant was intended to stay as such until someone called me into  debate on it. I decided to allow my opponent to pick the finer points of the debate, as the challenged should, as essentially, my rant could be construed as a chalenge to all comers.

[Kakita Isao]

Sadane duels are between two people only. User nudged. - Tetsuro

[Kakita Shiro]

I am discussing those ideas in a manner that I would if I were to be in character, and thus created this account keeping the character being portrayed, I wasn't so much considering the nature of the topic as part of the role-playing experience, simply the manner in which the debate is played out as well as the peer voting system.

It's more like watching the U.S. presidential debates than pretending to be two people with certain conflicting ideas. If you want to pretend that you are pretending to be someone with these ideas, be my guest.

You keep making it seem like LARPing is a very small based form of role-playing, whereas I would say it is one of the larger forms of role-playing (if we are to consider cosplay a form of LARPing, which I do).

LARPing is more like a subset of cosplay, not the other way around. It's the intersection of people who enjoy cosplay and people who like role-playing games. By the very nature of being an intersection of two sets, its population cannot logically exceed the population of either parent set.

You have also now made the assumption that the lack of a LARPing section on AEG's forums doesn't bother me, it does, or it would if I had access to AEG's forums, however, as I can post about it here, I will.

Quite frankly, I don't care what does and doesn't bother you, but mentioning the AEG forums and other Clan forums simply allows me to show you that there is little care for LARPing in a predominantly CCG world. I support the idea of web space dedicated to the hobby here, predicated on the condition that you can demonstrate some non-trivial community need that is not being filled by its absence. Which I am not seeing.

According to the rules of the court any sadane debate may begin with a rant, so my argument is not damaged by the fact that it may have begun with a rant, nor yours bolstered by the same.

An observation is different from a rant. A rant contains an opinion whereas your so-called argument really doesn't exist until someone came along and provoked a response from you.

[Tetsuro]

Kakita Shiro is the winner.